And I like RadioRa2 switches which are click and let go. Click to turn in is the same way you turn off. Unless I’m using the keypad, which I always have a regular switch for the main light in a room, even right next to a keypad, I like having a regular (non-keypad) switch that I don’t have to look at to make sure I’m hitting the right button. Similar to having a remote control, I like the tactile feel of buttons for often used controls and move the lesser used controls to a touchscreen. I would not want to have to look at a switch to make sure I pressed the right location on that switch. Plus, those make it harder for guests as this is not as intuitive as regular switches were all used to.
New house, zero automation now, what dimmers for future automation
- Thread starter Linwood
- Start date
wkearney99
Senior Member
I have an ex. Oh, the stories to tell... They only seem funny once time passes... anyway...
Back to installs, why make work when it's not necessary? Joint compound may well be cheap, but your time isn't worthless. Likewise, go into junction boxes more than a few times... you learn to make it as few as necessary. You're up against all kinds of mistakes, both ones you might make AND the past mistakes of others. It doesn't sound like all that big a deal, and perhaps a lot of times it might not be. But in the few times where it MIGHT be you're risking smoldering fire due to loose connections and arcing.
I've dealt with everything from knob and tube, to cloth/asphalt, to aluminum, to modern Romex (and probably a few others I've forgotten). I've also had the opportunity to revisit some of my own work in the past... and have been less than impressed a few times. Mistakes get made, try to plan well enough ahead to minimize their quantity.
I'm not one to exaggerate or panic. But when it comes to line voltage AC you do not ever want to start thinking about it as 'not a big deal'.
Or not, I'm just offering advice, make of it what you will.
Yes, you can layer hubs through another system. I've got both Ra2 and Caseta connected through Ra2. Why? Because Lutron in their infinite wisdom has decided not to offer an on-wall plug for Ra2. I like Caseta's on-wall gizmo and put the added time and expense into rigging up a Smart Bridge Pro and a HS3 plug-in just to get that. The downside is the only way I can control one from the other is through HS3. Which is fine for this simple setup, but for whole house lighting it'd lose a lot of Lutron's nice scene coordinating. That and by the time you add up the cost of the pieces you're often right back up to Ra2 level.
Back to installs, why make work when it's not necessary? Joint compound may well be cheap, but your time isn't worthless. Likewise, go into junction boxes more than a few times... you learn to make it as few as necessary. You're up against all kinds of mistakes, both ones you might make AND the past mistakes of others. It doesn't sound like all that big a deal, and perhaps a lot of times it might not be. But in the few times where it MIGHT be you're risking smoldering fire due to loose connections and arcing.
I've dealt with everything from knob and tube, to cloth/asphalt, to aluminum, to modern Romex (and probably a few others I've forgotten). I've also had the opportunity to revisit some of my own work in the past... and have been less than impressed a few times. Mistakes get made, try to plan well enough ahead to minimize their quantity.
I'm not one to exaggerate or panic. But when it comes to line voltage AC you do not ever want to start thinking about it as 'not a big deal'.
Or not, I'm just offering advice, make of it what you will.
Yes, you can layer hubs through another system. I've got both Ra2 and Caseta connected through Ra2. Why? Because Lutron in their infinite wisdom has decided not to offer an on-wall plug for Ra2. I like Caseta's on-wall gizmo and put the added time and expense into rigging up a Smart Bridge Pro and a HS3 plug-in just to get that. The downside is the only way I can control one from the other is through HS3. Which is fine for this simple setup, but for whole house lighting it'd lose a lot of Lutron's nice scene coordinating. That and by the time you add up the cost of the pieces you're often right back up to Ra2 level.
So in terms of education, and because every room except the garage has the same exact type of LED downlighting and I wanted to see how well it worked, I picked up a $99 starter kit at home Depot, which seemed a reasonable price for a switch, bridge and pico.
The good news is that the LED's so far work exceptionally well with the dimmer. No flicker, and a huge range from barely there to bright.
Beyond that still thinking, but I really did not want to get too far down this path and find out these LED's (did I mention they are everywhere) were not friendly to a dimmer. And unlike houses past where there were cans and you just unscrew the bulb, these are mounted in junction boxes (not cans), so to replace you have to swap out the whole ... whatever you call it... fixture?
But so far they look just fine with dimmers. And now when I get some spare time I'll try out some HA hub and see how they work together.
The good news is that the LED's so far work exceptionally well with the dimmer. No flicker, and a huge range from barely there to bright.
Beyond that still thinking, but I really did not want to get too far down this path and find out these LED's (did I mention they are everywhere) were not friendly to a dimmer. And unlike houses past where there were cans and you just unscrew the bulb, these are mounted in junction boxes (not cans), so to replace you have to swap out the whole ... whatever you call it... fixture?
But so far they look just fine with dimmers. And now when I get some spare time I'll try out some HA hub and see how they work together.
wkearney99
Senior Member
I have two main repeaters. This is the Ra2 equivalent of a bridge. I have no Ra2 aux repeaters, which is what some other technologies require to extend the distance the devices can be from the central bridge. This covers four floors of a 5k sqft house (basement to attic) and some outdoor sensors.pete_c said:
The nice part is the Ra2 software automagically combines them as one network. I have Homeseer talking to just one of the main repeaters and it has control over all of the attached Ra2 devices.
I've got a handful of z-wave and zigbee devices but find them unreliable, at best. I just don't find myself wanting to waste the effort to make them work. I set them up in HS3 and things seem to work... for a while... then they don't. It's pretty irritating. I cannot imagine trying to deal with that on a whole-house scale.
wkearney99
Senior Member
Nice. Now you're hooked. heh.Linwood said:
I wish I liked the look of Ra2... I keep looking at them every time a thread comes up. I guess it’s square switches at $100 a pop. Makes my skin crawl. I should have just put them in for the reliability, but have a mix of UPB and ZWave presently. My current favorite is the Cooper/Eaton Aspire RF ZWave switch. They make a squarish model like the Ra2 switches, but also a more stylized model in the 9540 series. Comes in ZWave and non, colors as well. More like $50 than $100, which is nice too.
RadioRa2 is definitely a premium product and I’m not completely happy with Lutron’s product differentiation between Homeworks, RadioRa2, RadioRa2 Select, and Caseta. But while on Cocoontech, I’ve read about problems with Insteon, UPB, Zwave, Zigbee, etc. I don’t think I’ve ever read or experienced any reliability issues with my RadioRa2 system in the 5+ years I’ve had it. I read many stories of people with other systems wishing they had bought something else, again, I don’t think I’ve read those words about RadioRa2. So in this case, it is a matter of paying once and getting the pain over with instead of (potentially) having ongoing issues.cobra said:
Note, I’m sure there are people that don’t have any issues with UPB, Zwave, etc but I have read many stories of people having device reliability issues with Insteon, problems with noisy devices on UPB, or Zwave devices losing their programming and having to have everything redone. RadioRa2 doesn’t have those sorts of problems, it just works. And for me, that is worth double the cost...begrudgingly.
upstatemike
Senior Member
Don't use wire nuts AND electrical tape because the tape can mask the fact that the wire nut has become loose and the connection could be arcing within the wire nut. Use these and you can change things around without putting wear and tear on the wires.
https://www.amazon.com/Wago-221-412-221-413-221-415-Assortment/dp/B018MGMFDI/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2GHCL712IPC4O&keywords=wago+lever+nuts&qid=1551676099&s=gateway&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C162&sr=8-2
https://www.amazon.com/Wago-221-412-221-413-221-415-Assortment/dp/B018MGMFDI/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2GHCL712IPC4O&keywords=wago+lever+nuts&qid=1551676099&s=gateway&sprefix=wago%2Caps%2C162&sr=8-2
@upstatemike, I don't see any indication those are UL listed, and if not they would not comply with code in the US, would they?
I'm the son of an electrician, though not one myself I grew up being cautious, but I welcome the thread of caution expressed here.
But... I'm not sure it bears that heavily on the core question... what dimmer should I use.
I just spent some time trying to figure out how to buy RA2 (not select), without much success. Amazon has a single dimmer for $149, and the starter kit is $729, with a keypad for $400. That just seems beyond pricy. I also had no real luck finding them at other stores, and the "where to buy" leads generally to installers.
So are they really not $100 dimmers but $150 dimmers?
I'm the son of an electrician, though not one myself I grew up being cautious, but I welcome the thread of caution expressed here.
But... I'm not sure it bears that heavily on the core question... what dimmer should I use.
I just spent some time trying to figure out how to buy RA2 (not select), without much success. Amazon has a single dimmer for $149, and the starter kit is $729, with a keypad for $400. That just seems beyond pricy. I also had no real luck finding them at other stores, and the "where to buy" leads generally to installers.
So are they really not $100 dimmers but $150 dimmers?
upstatemike
Senior Member
Yes Wago nuts are UL listed. Have a copy of the UL certification as a PDF but not sure how to post it.
Maybe the best way to settle on a dimmer is to make a list of features that are important to you and then see what technology ticks the most boxes from your list.
For me the list would be:
Technology must be supported by Homeseer to integrate with my other automation.
Must include dimmers, switches, plug-in modules, and bulbs or socket modules to cover all of my scenarios.
Must scale well. (For example Insteon can support a lot of devices but does not scale well because the PLM interface is too slow and memory constrained)
Must report local operation to ensure system knows true status at all times.
Must support some way for the controller to interrogate status and resync after a power failure.
Must not turn on every time the power flickers (like Hue does)
Must be able to penetrate stone, brick, and old style plaster and lathe
Must be attractive, preferably with color changing LED indicators that can be managed programmatically
Must be shallow to fit into tight old work boxes
Must be able to control one dimmer from another to create virtual n-way setups without relying on traveler wires or companion switches.
Must not depend on other load bearing modules to convey signal such that moving your Christmas tree or lamp disrupts your whole lighting network
Must be extremely reliable
Maybe the best way to settle on a dimmer is to make a list of features that are important to you and then see what technology ticks the most boxes from your list.
For me the list would be:
Technology must be supported by Homeseer to integrate with my other automation.
Must include dimmers, switches, plug-in modules, and bulbs or socket modules to cover all of my scenarios.
Must scale well. (For example Insteon can support a lot of devices but does not scale well because the PLM interface is too slow and memory constrained)
Must report local operation to ensure system knows true status at all times.
Must support some way for the controller to interrogate status and resync after a power failure.
Must not turn on every time the power flickers (like Hue does)
Must be able to penetrate stone, brick, and old style plaster and lathe
Must be attractive, preferably with color changing LED indicators that can be managed programmatically
Must be shallow to fit into tight old work boxes
Must be able to control one dimmer from another to create virtual n-way setups without relying on traveler wires or companion switches.
Must not depend on other load bearing modules to convey signal such that moving your Christmas tree or lamp disrupts your whole lighting network
Must be extremely reliable
Attachments
upstatemike said:
I think the product you linked to are Wago knockoffs and probably aren't UL Listed. Real Wago connectors have the Wago logo printed on them.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017NQWDY4
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019D1PJI4
upstatemike
Senior Member
You are right. I picked a link that showed a variety of what looked like 221 series Wago nuts. Never occurred to me that there were knock-offs or I would have looked closer! I changed the link to a true Wago listing.RAL said:
Hue claims to have finally allowed last state recovery in their bulbs with current firmware. Nice that they listened to feedback and added the option. I havent tested it, but its not the default setting, so you need to turn it on if you desire that behavior.upstatemike said:
upstatemike
Senior Member
cobra said:
Thanks! I never noticed the new setting. 24 bulbs now set to restore to previous state so hopefully no more coming home (or waking up in the middle of the night) to all lights on full white! I am now more inclined to expand my Hue system. I wish they would come out with some wired switches and plug-in modules. Not everything is about bulbs! Or at least if they are only going to focus on bulbs then they need some brighter ones to match Lifx.
