New PC Build

[drvnbysound]

I have finally ordered PC parts to upgrade my current desktop PC, which means I have an opportunity to Frankenstein a dedicated HA computer.

The HA computer will comprise of the following:
3.0GHz Core 2 Quad processor
4GB DDR3 RAM
(2) 2TB HDDs for Media Storage (e.g. Ripped DVDs / BluRays)
(1) 1TB HDD for TV DVR
(1) 1TB HDD for CCTV Storage

The question I have is particular to the OS HDD. I have a 80GB HDD that I dont have much of a use for, and thought about using it as the primary HDD. The thing is that I was planning to create virtual machine(s) for CQC, CCTV DVR, and another for media software such as Sage (or applicable alternative, now that Sage isn't really viable as a new build now). If I used that 80GB HDD, I would likely partition it into (4) 20GB partitions (one for the host OS, and one for each VM). So, is 20GB really enough OS space for a VM that only contains individual programs such as CQC?

I have another 500GB HDD that I could easily use for the OS HDD, but I really dont have any other use for the 80GB HDD. Should I just scrap it? Does anyone see any other reasonable uses for it?

Having said the above, if the 500GB is recommended, what size partition(s) should be used for the VMs?

Thanks in advance for the recommendations and comments.

 

[rismoney]

I have finally ordered PC parts to upgrade my current desktop PC, which means I have an opportunity to Frankenstein a dedicated HA computer.

The HA computer will comprise of the following:
3.0GHz Core 2 Quad processor
4GB DDR3 RAM
(2) 2TB HDDs for Media Storage (e.g. Ripped DVDs / BluRays)
(1) 1TB HDD for TV DVR
(1) 1TB HDD for CCTV Storage

The question I have is particular to the OS HDD. I have a 80GB HDD that I dont have much of a use for, and thought about using it as the primary HDD. The thing is that I was planning to create virtual machine(s) for CQC, CCTV DVR, and another for media software such as Sage (or applicable alternative, now that Sage isn't really viable as a new build now). If I used that 80GB HDD, I would likely partition it into (4) 20GB partitions (one for the host OS, and one for each VM). So, is 20GB really enough OS space for a VM that only contains individual programs such as CQC?

I have another 500GB HDD that I could easily use for the OS HDD, but I really dont have any other use for the 80GB HDD. Should I just scrap it? Does anyone see any other reasonable uses for it?

Having said the above, if the 500GB is recommended, what size partition(s) should be used for the VMs?

Thanks in advance for the recommendations and comments.

With virtualization you do not need to partition the disk into partitions. This can only hurt and limit you. I recommend putting the base OS on 1 partition. Then put all the other VM's virtual disks on a separate partition. A couple of missing items - What OS and version would you be running. Also how much RAM were you allocating to the VMs? Which hypervisor? Generally speaking a page file should be set to at least 1:1 or 1.5:1 of memory. The other key item is amount of persistence. I might also be concerned with overall CPU utilization. The vswitching are done in software and can be taxed particularly in streaming type situations. Potentially Look into dual port network adapters, or an additional NIC you can put in there. Also memory may be tight with 4 GB, just getting 4 VMs alive on top of the hypervisor.

 

[electron]

What rismoney said. You definitely have a lot of testing to do, some CCTV software packages don't like being hosted in a VM, and while SageTV will run in a VM, if you plan on using any tuners, you probably want to avoid doing this (plus disk speed won't be that great either unless you invest in a massive storage setup).

 

[drvnbysound]

I certainly understand with regards to not needing the VMs actually placed on separate partitions. What I meant was to make a 20GB partition for the host OS, and a ~60GB partition for the VMs, and I would allocate approximately 20GB per VM.

I have tested some CCTV applications that I am interested in using on a previous computer and they have all worked fine on a VM. My biggest concern was if 20GB would really be enough space for the Host OS and/or the respective VMs, knowing what purpose each of them would serve.

With regards to CPU usage, there would be the Host (which I assume you refer to as the Hypervisor) and 3 VM's, so essentially 4 machines - and I have a Quad Core 3GHz processor. Couldn't I dedicate 1 core to each machine? None of the applications require more than a Pentium III 3.0GHz processor.

As far as OS... right now I have W7 (32-bit) which is why I only have 4GB of RAM installed. I certainly wouldnt mind purchasing 64-bit and installing more RAM, which would allow me to allocate more RAM to each VM. I also have licenses for XP, but I doubt that I would need to use it.

I actually already have the 500GB HDD in there now as the primary OS. I had just found the 80GB drive, and thought it might be an option, else I really have no use for it.

With regards to disk speed and media software such as Sage, or other... could you elaborate on how that would be effected, if I am dedicating a 1TB SATA II (3GB/s) drive to DVR recording (and 2-TB drives for movie storage)? I dont plan to use any internal tuners, HDHR's and HD-PVR's only.

 

[drvnbysound]

So, I decided to just stick with the 500GB primary (OS) HDD. I just got the 4th and 5th (both 1TB) drives installed... sorry for the horrible cellphone picture, but I didn't feel like pulling out the DSLR just for this:

I have decided that I will end up purchasing a x64 copy of Windows7, to use as the Host OS, which will allow me to add more RAM to allocate to each VM. Due to some compatibility issues with some programs and 64-bit Windows, I will use the 32-bit license I have now for VM. I only have (1) 1000MB Ethernet port right now, but will likely add 2 more; one for the media/DVR VM, and another for the CCTV VM, and I will just bridge the Ethernet port that is on the Motherboard with the Host OS, and the CQC VM.

As stated above, I will be using external tuners (HDHR, and HD-PVR) for DVR, and external video encoders (e.g. Axis) for CCTV, so I believe most of the major lifting will be processed on these external devices, making the Ethernet ports the bottleneck :-\

 

[pete_c]

Very nice drvnbysound.

Curious who is the manufacturer of the case and motherboard?

I've not seen one like this with the PS on the bottom of the case and the MB on the top of the case. Did you have to utilize extenders for the power supply to motherboard connection? Does the motherbard have 6 SATA connections on it?

 

[drvnbysound]

The case is by Antec (Three Hundred), the motherboard is by Gigabyte - and yes, it does have 6 onboard SATA connections. I have thought about adding a PCI SATA adapter to gain 2 more SATA ports, in case I wanted to add another HDD and another CD/DVD/BluRay drive, but will do that if the time comes. I will likely be adding additional Ethernet ports via PCI sooner than later. I did not have to use any extenders for the power supply connections (it is also an Antec power supply).

I originally built this computer about a year ago (LGA775 Socket) with the Core2Quad 3.0GHz processor, and have been using it as my daily use PC. However, I had recently had some issues installing some other programs, and was going to need to reformat anyway. Rather than do the work for nothing, I decided to order a second case, new motherboard and processor (Quad Core i5, 3.3GHz) and upgrade my daily use PC, and use this one as the HA machine.

 

[beaumeri]

I did not read the entire thread in detail but now for VM you can just install VMWARE ESXi 5 on bare metal (No host OS) and it's free. I currently run it on an old office server and have my WHS2011 as one VM on it and AsteriskNow (IP phones) on a second VM. I'm planing a third VM for Windows 7 X64 / CQC (or whatever software I choose for my advance automation)

VMWARE ESXi 5.0 no longer require a host OS and it's free.

VMWARE ESXi

Yon only need the licenses for each VM you install (Windows 7, Windows Home server, etc..)

 

[drvnbysound]

Beaumeri,

Thanks for the info, but I do plan to use the Host OS for some minor things as well, and have been playing with VMware Server for about 4 months now. It's also free, so I am just going to stick to it until there is a reason to switch.

 

[rismoney]

+1 for vmware. One of the best features in esx is thin provisioning.
Always leave disk space, and dont cram things on. Extending disks is a great feature too. Build small minimalistic vms for c: and then drop all data on d. Make those 1gb and griw as needed.

Try to use x64. You can even use xp mode in win7.

 

[drvnbysound]

So as the picture above shows, and as indicated by previous posts, I have a 500GB hard drive that I partitioned into a 200GB C:/ for the Host OS, and a ~270GB (after all the overhead) D:/ that I am using to install the VMs on. I am planning for approximately 80GB for each guest VM C:/, which will leave a small amount of overhead space remaining.

Having said that, I have the additional (2) 2TB drives for media storage, and (2) 1TB drives that I intend to use for DVR functionality and CCTV, respectively. Is there any 'good' way to allow the VMs access to these HDDs, other than to share them, and add them as mapped drives on the VMs? I have been trying to read through the VMware Users Manual, but haven't come across anything yet. I am fairly new to VMs (~4 months), with no other experience except for my minimal tinkering. I haven't seen any better way to do this yet, but if there is one, can someone please provide additional information?

 

[drvnbysound]

So it looks like I just need to add these additional drives at Datastores, then give the VMs access to the appropriate Datastores. If someone knows better, or can confirm the above, please do. Thanks.

 

[wuench]

I don't usually create separate datastores. I usually just assign virtual hard disk(s) to each VM, they will only use what they actually need. Highly recommend you use XP where you can for the OS (like for CQC), to reduce the memory required for the OS.

 

[rismoney]

So as the picture above shows, and as indicated by previous posts, I have a 500GB hard drive that I partitioned into a 200GB C:/ for the Host OS, and a ~270GB (after all the overhead) D:/ that I am using to install the VMs on. I am planning for approximately 80GB for each guest VM C:/, which will leave a small amount of overhead space remaining.

Having said that, I have the additional (2) 2TB drives for media storage, and (2) 1TB drives that I intend to use for DVR functionality and CCTV, respectively. Is there any 'good' way to allow the VMs access to these HDDs, other than to share them, and add them as mapped drives on the VMs? I have been trying to read through the VMware Users Manual, but haven't come across anything yet. I am fairly new to VMs (~4 months), with no other experience except for my minimal tinkering. I haven't seen any better way to do this yet, but if there is one, can someone please provide additional information?

Ok, here's the methodology I use. On physical servers [baremetal] I allocate roughly 100GB for OS. This includes pagefile [1.5x memory] plus a minimal additional 1.5x memory of free disk space. This is to accomodate a full memory dump. I create a D: Drive with all the rest of free space. This is where I install apps, and store data. The reason for this separation, is that app logs or other persistence should never have the potential of filling C: and crashing the computer.

On a VM things go a little different
I create a minimalistic C: where I can get just enough OS, and minimal free space. Make a minimal D: Drive. I put pagefile on a separate disk E: and make it a few MB larger than 1x memory. The reason here being is snapshots and similar activities don't need to deal with pagefile vmdks.

Thin provisioning on ESX means that the disk space is not consumed by simply allocating it, meaning you can overallocate disk space. I am saying don't plan for approximately 80GB for each guest VM. Instead try to find out what they actually use, and size. With diskpart in Windows you can extend volumes no problem in line with what you do in Vmware disk adjustments.


On ESXi baremetal you just hit ok, and everything is done for you

 

[drvnbysound]

I certainly understand what both of you are saying, particularly with respect to the guest OS, and its respective virtual hard disk space. However, what I am really referring to, is the best way to address giving my media VM (e.g. SageTV) access to HDDs that I have dedicated to media such as movies, or another that I had planned to use solely for DVR purposes - particularly since I have dedicated HDDs for each of these functions.

I thought this would be a good way to do it, so that all media (e.g. ripped movies) are stored in a standard file structure, on one or more HDDs (as fit for the library size). Using a standard file structure, such as movie title > VideoTS folder, no matter what media software is used the entire folder/HDD should be easily read..... rather than allocating some X size for a virtual HDD for the media, and having to continually grow the virtual HDD size as the media library continues to grow.

Also, thanks for the heads up regarding the use of XP. I do have an older XP license that I am not using anymore, that would certainly use less resources than Windows 7 does. I just hadnt thought about using XP since it is semi-soon to be sunset :unsure: