Premise Newbie Premise / Zwave questions

[Odeen]

Hi guys,

New Premise user. I have set up my basic system with a bunch of Leviton Vizia RF dimmers and relay switches, along with an RCS TZ43 and 2 Trane / Schlage thermostats.

So far, I have a few newbie questions.

1) I associated my dimmers & switches with the VRC0P, and I get proper status updates if I turn a light on or off manually. However, if I turn on the light from a GE Advanced Remote, (secondary controller I use for a few lights) it doesn't report to the VRC0P. Is this normal?


2) What's the purpose of "Preset Dim Level" setting? I cannot get my lights to come on at that preset level, they always come on at the "brightness" level. And adjusting brightness turns on the lights, which I do not want.

What makes sense to me is this:
* If light is on, "brightness" setting adjusts dimmer level.
* If light is off, "brightness" setting is disabled. "Preset dim level" adjusts the dimmer level (i.e. moving it in Premise builder should move the LED level indicator on the dimmer itself, but NOT turn on the light).
* This way, Premise can adjust the light level on a light that's turned off. Next time light is turned on, whether by Premise, by wall switch, or by a different controller, light turns on at this preset level.
* Turning light on sets "brightness" equal to "preset dim level" and turns on the lights.

While we're at it:
* If light is off, brightness control on the Premise UI adjusts "preset dim level"
* If light is on, brightness control on the Premise UI adjusts "brightness"
* Brightness control never turns the light on. Only the power button turns the light on.


I'm wondering if I'm bumping against some architectural limitation of the Vizia driver... If this sounds like a feasible modification, however, and if it makes sense to you guys, I'd be open to poking around the Vizia module to add this behavior. I've done some programming in the past, and a fair bit of Visual Basic scripting recently, it can't be that hard, right?

 

[mhilbush]

etc6849 and I have been collaborating on some changes to etc6849's VisiaRF module. Is that the one you are using?

You can see the dialog about our most recent work here.
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18200

The most recent version of the module is posted in this thread. However, realize it is unreleased at the moment (although both etc6849 and I have been running it for several weeks with no issues).

Not so sure about those thermostats. etc6849 will have to comment on how those compare to the ones he's using. Nonetheless, I would imagine support can be added for those.

Mark

 

[etc6849]

It should be very easy to get your system working great with Premise. What primary controller are you using?

If you are using a Leviton primary controller, you can set up two way feedback for the vizia rf devices, then I believe Premise should receive the updates. Read through this DOC: http://communities.leviton.com/docs/DOC-2394 and follow the 5 steps noted.

I don't use the preset dimming option. I don't think it's supported for z-wave, but you can add code to use it if you wanted too.

 

[Odeen]

It should be very easy to get your system working great with Premise. What primary controller are you using?

If you are using a Leviton primary controller, you can set up two way feedback for the vizia rf devices, then I believe Premise should receive the updates. Read through this DOC: http://communities.leviton.com/docs/DOC-2394 and follow the 5 steps noted.

I don't use the preset dimming option. I don't think it's supported for z-wave, but you can add code to use it if you wanted too.

Hi Etc,

The Primary is a Leviton RF+ Installer Tool. It seems to work fine with ThinkEssentials, and I believe I was able to associate my light switches to the VRC0P (When I edit Device Associations for every switch, there is an orange circle around the VRC0P).

When I activate a light switch manually, the Port Spy output shows output from the VRC0P and Premise status naturally updates. However, if I activate a switch from a secondary controller (The GE remote), the VRC0P seems silent. I wonder if that's by design - no HAIL commands if activated from a controller.
--------------------

I've spent some time today playing with the VRC0P directly, and I discovered something interesting:
Using the "Dim/Bright" bar on a turned off Vizia dimmer will move the brightness LED around, and it'll affect brightness next time you turn the light on. You won't actually turn the light on via the Dim/Bright bar. I like this behavior - a single control accomplishes a single action (paddle powers the lights on/off, dim/bright bar controls brightness), and it lets me "plan ahead" without HAVING to turn the lights on.

On the other hand, sending the VRC0P something like >N2L50 will turn Node 2 on at 50% power. It won't just set it to 50% keeping the power state unchanged.

Is there a different VRC0P command that will keep the light off but adjust the brightness for the next activation? Doing a set level and then immediately turning the light off seems lame.

The goal is to turn all my dimmers down to 50-60% during the middle of the night so I don't blind myself if I wake up. Then, after the sun rises, reset the dimmers back to 100%.

Thanks in advance,

Alex

 

[etc6849]

Your assumption about the GE remote having no HAIL commands sounds correct to me. Only Vizia RF and partner devices support the hail function (I think). If you're using the latest ControlThink software, the Trane thermostats seem to also give feedback when I manually change them. This surprised me as I thought only Vizia RF products used the hail function, but I'm not complaining.

The brightness issue is due to the VRC0P's protocol; setting the brightness always causes the light to come on.

For example: >N8L45 will cause a light to come on. This is how the VRC0P is designed and there's probably not much you can do except use scenes. The newer version of the VRC0P might change this, we'll have to wait and see.

Creating scenes for each lamp will work as you desire, but will take some effort for a large installation. What you would might try is this: make a light under home, but don't bind it to anything. Instead, create the onchange scripts for the new light under home that will utilize the scene you created under sys://Devices/CustomDevices/ViziaRF/Scenes. You'll need to do this for each lamp

 

[etc6849]

A couple suggestions to your GE remote issue:

1. Examine what the VRC0P sees in port spy when you press buttons that are not bound to anything on the GE remote. If the GE remote gives some output when an empty button is pressed, I would suggest someone add a remote class to the VRC0P module to handle the button presses. Then, in Premise, you would write code to link the remotes button presses with actions on home objects in Premise. This code is usually placed under each button of a keypad at the home level. I don't have any sort of secondary remote control, but markh might.

2. Much easier suggestion: don't use the GE remote and purchase an X10 MR26a and an X10 Palm pad from ebay. This is used in a similar manner with a keypad home object. This is what many of us use for remotes as they are very durable and cheap!

 

[Odeen]

A couple suggestions to your GE remote issue:

1. Examine what the VRC0P sees in port spy when you press buttons that are not bound to anything on the GE remote. If the GE remote gives some output when an empty button is pressed, I would suggest someone add a remote class to the VRC0P module to handle the button presses. Then, in Premise, you would write code to link the remotes button presses with actions on home objects in Premise. This code is usually placed under each button of a keypad at the home level. I don't have any sort of secondary remote control, but markh might.

The GE remote shows an error on the LCD, and has no Zwave output when an empty button is pressed.

The reason why this is a concern is that I also have a bunch of Monster / Leviton scene controllers installed. I would like, ideally, to bind SOME of the buttons to the lights directly, instead of binding the buttons to Premise, and having Premise execute the scene. That way, scene activation is faster, and the scenes work even if the Premise computer has crashed, or is off. However, if activating a switch from a secondary controller makes the switch NOT hail the VRC0P, I'll have to go through Premise for everything.

I wonder if the light switches hail the VRC0P if I activate them from the primary controller (USB stick / ThinkEssentials)... and I wonder if I can associate the GE Remote with the VRC0P. I'll have to try it tonight and report back

2. Much easier suggestion: don't use the GE remote and purchase an X10 MR26a and an X10 Palm pad from ebay. This is used in a similar manner with a keypad home object. This is what many of us use for remotes as they are very durable and cheap!

The nice things about the GE remote is that it has thermostat control, it has an LCD, and looks a little more techy and a little less clunky than the MR26a... plus I can use the GE remote without Premise running.

This might all be a moot point if I finally get Premise to a "production" level on a low-power computer, and a tablet or a hacked Chumby device for each of the main rooms....

 

[mhilbush]

This might all be a moot point if I finally get Premise to a "production" level on a low-power computer, and a tablet or a hacked Chumby device for each of the main rooms....

Speaking of low-power computers, I have Premise running on one of these devices from Habey:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859324015

The device is mounted inside the cabinet, and is fanless, headless, keyboardless, and mouseless -- only connections are power, network, VRCOP, and CM11A. Access is through RDP from another Windows box.

 

[etc6849]

Mark's setup is similar to mine, but I use a custom built mini-ITX PC that has a fan. I really like this drop in solution better and it's cheaper too.

If you haven't already, associate the dimmer with the secondary GE controller and the VRC0P. I believe you should have a "set associations" option for the controller or a "set routes" option for the dimmer. I don't think a secondary controller can hail another secondary controller, but please report back. This is a very interesting idea!

It's too bad the GE remote shows an error with nothing bound to the buttons; I was thinking about getting one, but want to use it on other stuff, not just zwave. I remember last year I experimented with a VRCPG-SG and it did send an output for empty button presses to the VRC0P. I don't use the VRCPG anymore and rely on Premise 100% of the time to manage my lighting; reaction time seems to be as fast as X10 and much more reliable.

Leviton also released updated software that works with the USB ThinkStick. This "installer tool" is MUCH better for debugging than the ControlThink software and it's free http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=33295&minisite=10021

Provide your email and your name (in place of a company name), then leviton's site will let you download the free "installer only" software. I use it for my largest zwave network, and use the ControlThink software for my smaller zwave network.

I divide up my networks like this so that one network is Leviton only. I did this because the time the VRC0P took to receive two way feedback on a manual switch press went from 1 second to 3 seconds as I added more and more non-leviton stuff to the network?!? I never figured out why. I just ordered a second USB stick for the other network and a used RZC0P to control the second network with Premise.

 

[mhilbush]

Mark's setup is similar to mine, but I use a custom built mini-ITX PC that has a fan. I really like this drop in solution better and it's cheaper too.

Careful on the assumption that the Habey device is cheaper. You need to add memory (I put in 2GB) and disk drive (I used a 1.8" SSD). The real benefits are the small size and the very low power consumption.

 

[etc6849]

I didn't have much time to read all of the specs earlier, I apologize. It seems they built the Habey with HA in mind, so it's worth the extra money (I think).

Here's the case I have: http://www.logicsupply.com/products/m350

The Habey is several inches smaller than the m350 mini-ITX case!?!

PS: where is the Habey made? I'm guessing it's geared toward POS or business users?

 

[mhilbush]

PS: where is the Habey made? I'm guessing it's geared toward POS or business users?

China, I think. They're used in applications where there's a big monitor where they can attach the device to the back of the monitor. The best example I can think of is the monitor they use in airports to show flight schedules & status.

Yes, I think it is worth every penny. I haven't done the energy calculations. But, considering that home automation is an always-on application, I suspect the energy savings over a period of years might make up for the extra cost. I also run the Logitech Squeezebox Server software on the Habey.

 

[etc6849]

Just the extra cost, space and energy usage of an external serial port server with 4 COM ports makes it worth it. I wish my mini_ITX machine had 4 COM ports (some do though).

I don't know how I overlooked Habey. I'm not an IT person or programmer, so I guess I never noticed what was powering the plasma and lcd televisions used as signage.

What's neat about your choice is that it has all the local ports one needs (other COM ports are over IP) and fits in any size can. I ended up with two 42" Leviton cans for my install. If I could have fit my PC in with my security system, I could have eliminated the Elk ethernet adapter, used one of the four local COM ports and saved over $100!
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18302

Where were you last year when I posted this thread?
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15500&view=findpost&p=130969