Pre-Wire for Garage Door Openers

[apostolakisl]

Hi Lou;

You could do something like that. I'm guessing you would have to poll the zone with some sort of timer and do a value compare to see if the door is rising or falling. The problem is the door opens pretty fast so the poll would have to be at least every second. I guess you could activate this poll to take place only when a command is given to control the garage door (I'm just not sure).

I may have been misleading on my resolution needs in the above post. The Elk has eight bit resolution so it will divide the voltage span into 256 'units' vs say a ten bit which divides the voltage span into 1024 'units'. BUT, when concerning the resolution needed for a garage door's location, eight bits should be more than adequate (unless you are really hard core). I just didn't like the pull up resistor influence and polling/updating using the Elk as an analog input, plus I had other sensors here that needed the ten bit resolution (temp, humidity, salt level in softener, etc...).

I use HomeSeer to read the analog to digital converter via a serial port and place those inputs as devices so it all works out great for me here.

Another thing I'm thinking about is the Elk's abitility to use a four sensor state (forget what it is called) that you might be able to use as well for at least four quadrants of your garage door's location. Best to just get a pot and play around with it a bit.

I do have a Guide to Analog to Digital Converters which might be of some use here as well. B)

This 4 sensor state sounds interesting. Can you or someone tell me more. I wasn't aware that Elk had such a thing. I would love to have states of 1) secure (closed) 2) opening 3) closing 4) none of the above (or in other words, open at least partailly and not moving). If that were the case, I could use a single zone to monitor everything I need to know.

This assumes that the garage door motor is a dc motor that switches polarity to open/close. I could easily put two relays on that and using resistors create unique resistances for going up, going down, not moving. Adding a contact closure on the garage that shorts the whole thing out for secure would complete the signal.

 

[Neurorad]

A little late to the party but other items to consider in the garage for the future, before patching holes: camera(s), irrigation controller, motion sensor(s), audio keypad, security keypad, items for rooms above garage, speakers, additional 110v outlets, 220v outlets (electric cars, power tools, welder, heater), wireless lighting control repeater (Lutron RA2), additional lights.

I wrote out but didn't post this yesterday. :blush:

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Lou; I remember reading a setting on the Elk that could handle four different 'states'. I can't remember if this was for zone doubling, some crazy EOL scenario, etc... but I'm pretty sure I remember reading about it here on CocoonTech.

 

[apostolakisl]

Lou; I remember reading a setting on the Elk that could handle four different 'states'. I can't remember if this was for zone doubling, some crazy EOL scenario, etc... but I'm pretty sure I remember reading about it here on CocoonTech.

I see a way to get 3 states. Check the advanced options in a program and you get the options, 1) secure, 2) not secure (open loop), 3) not secure (shorted). So you could go with closed, moving, not moving/not closed all on wire.

 

[Ira]

BSR may be talking about the diagram at the bottom of page 9 in the M1G Installation and Programming Manual. It shows four states...short~, 2.2kOhms, 4.4kOhms, and open~.

The title of the diagram is "Optional Four (4) State Zone Wiring (2 series resistors w/ N.C. contacts)".

Ira

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

BSR may be talking about the diagram at the bottom of page 9 in the M1G Installation and Programming Manual. It shows four states...short~, 2.2kOhms, 4.4kOhms, and open~.

The title of the diagram is "Optional Four (4) State Zone Wiring (2 series resistors w/ N.C. contacts)".

Ira

Thanks Ira. I wonder what the voltage ranges of these states are? Reason I ask is because you really can't get an "open" using a pot. In either case it could be tricky because my GD had about eight turns I believe and you would have to match that scenario with say a ten turn pot with 5K total resistance? I'm just not sure you could cover the entire range to take advantage of all four states with one pot.

 

[Ira]

The voltage ranges are 0-3.9 volts (short), 4.0-7.3 volts (2.2kOhms), 7.4-11.0 volts (4.4kOhms), and 11.1-13.8 volts (open).

 

[apostolakisl]

OK, I think I got it.

1) Not secure, short 0-3.9
2) Secure 4.0-7.3
3) Not secure 7.4-11
4) Not Secure, Open 11.1-13.8

Four states with one wire!!!!

Now my next problem:
I checked out the gdo. There are 3 wires going to the motor: red, blue, white. White is ground.

While opening: blue 120vac, red 140vac.
While closing: blue 140vac, red 120vac.

How the heck am I going to convert that to relays switching resistors in and out of the zone loop? For sure I can get a relay to throw to just know movement, but I would really like to differentiate up vs down.

 

[hagak]

Well how about you use a DTSP toggle switch for direction. Attach the switch to the side of the door. Make sure the toggle is long enough and attach some type of rod to the door. The door will throw the switch to one side when going up and throw it to the other side when going down. Place the switch near the top of the door and have 2 rods to flip it, one near the top of the door and one near the bottom.

Not sure if this would really work but just another idea.

Other option would be to use 2 sensors, hall effect or light and some logic device to determine the order in which the sensors trip.

 

[apostolakisl]

I think can solve this delimma using diodes/rectifiers, but I am not sure exactly what specs I need.

If I convert the blue/white and red/white to dc current with two rectifiers, I will have a potential between the two that is DC. If after rectifying the current, I might get one with something like 60v dc and the other with 70vdc, then I have 10vdc potential between them. The polarity of those 10v will be opposite for up vs down. If I run two wires between those two rectifier outputs and put a diode on each with opposite polarity along with a relay on each, then when the door goes up, one relay should energize, and when it goes down the other should energize.

Am I right here?

I should have taken some EE classes in college.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

A quick and cheap way to do this might be to use an unregulated ten volt or so wall wart as its DC voltage should fluctuate over that AC differential.