Prewiring for Home Automation

[sionxct]

I'm building a house and undecided about what automation system I might eventually deploy. I'm very much a DIY type that loves to play with automation when time permits, but need a system that meets the WAF. I'm not afraid of high voltage, low voltage, soldering irons, assembly (and other) languages. I am afraid of systems that require specialized wiring that effectively lock you into their specific brand. And, the last thing I want is a system that requires a dealer to come out to make changes to the automation (what fun is that?)
 
I've read through all the "how to wire your new house" suggestions. I've pretty settled on how I'm going to handle high voltage. Now, I'm trying to put a plan together for maximum flexibility for a future automation and security system. One option, is to stay with systems like UPB, X10, Z-Wave or Insteon that don't require any hardwire communication cable. However, is there a communication cable (CatX, RS485, etc) that give the most flexibility to chose a future hardwired system? Looks like HAI uses Cat6 but others are steering away CatX cable.
 
 
 

 

[emrosenberg]

Are you talking about running CatX for lighting?  As far as I'm aware the systems that use such a setup all use some sort of 'home-run' setup to a central closet, so you'd have to plan for that in the high voltage layout as well.  Short of doing that, I think the best course is to make sure that all of your lighting locations have a neutral wire.  I'm not sure what you mean when you say that HAI uses Cat6.  Security sensors, as far as I'm aware, use either 18/2 or 18/4 wire.  CatX would be used for connecting the keypads to the main controller, and for IP cameras.

 

[pete_c]

Welcome to the forum sionxct and emrosenberg.
 
Relating to HV (high voltage) here run in conduit with metal boxes the original GC electrician ran neutrals to all of the boxes.  Many multi-way switches were installed.  Over the years here have added circuits to provide more granularity to all sections of the home.  The wiring has addendums for automation and will work fine with legacy electrical wiring.  My personal suggestion is to wire for legacy and then add what you want for automation.  Don't short cut yourself for automation.  Wire is reasonable in price.  The HV wiring and methodologies is one section in itself relating to home automation.  Here also went to an intelligent whole house commercial style surge protection.  (not really necessary).  There are other pieces here too that are optional; IE: whole house generator, whole house UPS...the list goes on and on.  Then now there is LV lighting.   That said one neighbour here went to using LV lighting for all of his exterior lighting that runs on batteries with solar panels.
 
Security sensors, as far as I'm aware, use either 18/2 or 18/4 wire.
 
Yeah here used 22/4 and 22/2 for the sensors plugged in to the security panels.  Last alternatives relating to security are wireless sensors (with batteries) directly connected to the security panel.  These typically are security panel only wireless transceivers.  Today too there is UL approval for ZWave wireless security sensors.  Not sure today on Zigbee wireless sensors (but it is probably coming).
 
Many folks add 16/4 and 16/2 for shade controllers type of stuff. 
 
Many folks also while leaving their GC installed smoke detectors add panel / zoned smokes, fire et al sensors - these utilize different cabling.
 
Installed Cat5X for networking, RS-232 runs, speaker keypad controllers, CCTV and other stuff many years ago.  Works fine today.
 
Here utilize streaming HD video via the Gb network.  I do not switch or extend HDMI video.  There are many folks here that do that.
 
The sure bet way to automate (legacy automation) is to LV wire HV switches where the switch has both a LV and HV side to it. 
 
That said there is also power line, hybrid power line and wireless and wireless automated switches.  Relating to wireless today there is 802.11X wireless and proprietary frequency wireless and propietary Zigbee wireless and Blue tooth Wireless.  Gets involved.
 
Here utilize UPB power line switches.
 
Here used 16/4 and 16/2 for the zoned audio speakers. 
 
HVAC / thermostats here are wired serially to the controlling combination security / automation panel.  The thermostat and or remote control doesn't really do much for you other than providing a console to your HVAC.    Rather look at the home infrastructure and trying to cool it with one ice cube and heating it with one candle.  Newest (well and old) are zoned sections of the home for cooling and heating.
 
Much of the above is documented right here on the forum sections relating to wiring your home.  The HA landscape is changing today. 
 
Much of it (HA) is still in flux. 
 
Many companies are utilizing the cloud and many on are different pages of HA;  much is proprietary with the assumption than other companies will utilize their methodologies.   There are many assumptions of HA interplay between different systems that simply do not exist.   ROI is not there today relating to LV HA residential wiring and automation.  Most GC's do not have a clue (literally).  Do it for yourself.
 
Baby steps, plan your infrastructure, wire for everything and don't make HA assumptions.  
 
IE: look at the switch endeavour.  One automated switch typically costs more than $50 USD.  Multiple that by multiple automated switches in multiple rooms in your home.  Figure on a money spend as automation is not cheap; it does cost a few bucks.
 
The planning, wiring stuff is time consuming but not necessary prohibitive cost wise.  

 

[mikefamig]

You might want to consider running RG cable for your television set top boxes. I wired my house with Cat5e all over because I had ATT UVERSE iptv service which is fine but if I ever want to switch to COX or Comcast or whatever cable company is available in the area I am told that I will need to run RG cable all over the house to accommodate it. I believe that the satellite systems also use RG cable internally.
 
Mike.

 

[sionxct]

Honestly, what I'm most struggling with is LED lighting. I'd like a system that supports tunable white, if not full RGBWW, lighting. I guess the reason I asked about prewiring for hardwire automation systems is that I'm having trouble finding good solutions for LED lighting which are controlled by hardwire. I think Lutron supports hardwired RGBWW LED lighting, but I'm not sure what other system do? That leads me to... of the systems that do support or may support RGBWW LED in the future, what hardwire control schemes of they using? Of course, I'm trying to avoid systems that require a dealer to install / program.
 
I'm a bit confused about what the HAI Omni Pro actually is. At first I thought, like the Elk, its a DIY security system, that supports basic home automation functions. How does Omni Bus fit into this? I thought I saw an Omni Bus module that controls LED lighting.
 
Looks like Loxone has a DMX based controller that uses shielded Cat5e cable.
 
@Pete_C, what are you using as a whole house UPS?
 

 
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[pete_c]

+ what Mike states above.
 
Here wired for RG all over in the early 2000's.  CCTV was RG/Siamese & 22/4 & cat5e.  Television used OTA, Satellite and cable via RG cabling.
 
Had FIOS installed years ago and they utilize the RG rather than the CatXX already in place for television STBs. 
 
Today too companies are just installing wireless rather than utilizing RG or CatXX cable.  (it is a much cheaper methodology and it works for them).

 

[mikefamig]

Pete
 
We're the second owners of our home and it had coax installed so badly inside and out that I tore it out years ago. Through the years installers had just strung it up so badly that it hurt my eyes to even look at it so one day I just got disgusted and tore most of it out. I've been on the iptv system for many years now and am hoping that wireless TV set top boxes will become the standard in the not too distant future so that I never have to replace the RG.
 
I have one TV that has a wifi adapter built in and it works pretty well for Netflix and other TV apps but I'm sure that the bandwidth is limited compared to coax or cat cable.
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

Honestly, what I'm most struggling with is LED lighting. I'd like a system that supports tunable white, if not full RGBWW, lighting. I guess the reason I asked about prewiring for hardwire automation systems is that I'm having trouble finding good solutions for LED lighting which are controlled by hardwire. I think Lutron supports hardwired RGBWW LED lighting, but I'm not sure what other system do? That leads me to... of the systems that do support or may support RGBWW LED in the future, what hardwire control schemes of they using? Of course, I'm trying to avoid systems that require a dealer to install / program.
 
I'm a bit confused about what the HAI Omni Pro actually is. At first I thought, like the Elk, its a DIY security system, that supports basic home automation functions. How does Omni Bus fit into this? I thought I saw an Omni Bus module that controls LED lighting.
 
Looks like Loxone has a DMX based controller that uses shielded Cat5e cable.
 
@Pete_C, what are you using as a whole house UPS?
 

 
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Pretty much any kind of lighting or load in general can be controlled by UPB as far as powering them on, off or dimming. As far as tuning color I would think that it would be specific to the technology that you choose to install.
 
Mike.
 
EDIT
 
Does a standard exist for LED color controls?

 

[pete_c]

Yup; in Fl the coaxial television cable was strung up outside under the eaves of the wooden home (originally built around 1955), serially (with splitters to each room).  The paint held the wooden house together as I could put my finger through the wood exterior in the 1990's.  In the midwest the GC used RG coaxial cable centralized along with Cat5e centralized (for phone use at the time).
 
In the latter part of the 1990's coaxial cable was still utilized such that I just wired and centralized it to one closet (tear down and rebuild) and added cat5x way back.
 
Here though the experience or wanting to do this came from at work commercial stuff with whatever standards existed back in the 90's.
 
Truly with new today you really do not need RG coaxial cable. 
 
Here still using it for in house television / OTA / broadcast mixture.  I purchased some RF / cable single injectors way way back (rack mounted for cable TV housing stuff).

 

[mikefamig]

sionxct
 
This may interest you:
 
http://www.theledlight.com/rgb-wifi-color-controllers.html
 
I did a quick search on color LED and didn't turn up any wired control system. I did see wireless controls like the one that use wifi I linked to above or proprietary wireless remote controls..

 

[pete_c]

@Pete_C, what are you using as a whole house UPS?
 
I am not.
 
I have installed / been involved in commercial whole building UPS / Generator systems.
 
Typically the power comes from the whole building UPS and HV is just charging batteries.  The switch over from outside HV power to generator power is never seen as the power is conditioned. (no surges no outage et al).
 
The Leviton HAI Omni Pro and Elk M1 devices are combination security automation panels with roots being the first companies to do this back in the 1990s.  Both panels are similarly priced.  Both are security first and automation second.
 
Omni-bus wired is just using LV to manage HV stuff.  It is done domestically and internationally. 
 
LED / RGB lighting is just that. 
 
The voltage utilized for a source is low voltage typically DC.  120VAC LED lighting is converting the AC HV to DC LV.
 
A switch is a switch.   It is a bit different switching / dimming a low amperage (LED) load versus a high (incandescent) amperage load.  Many automated switches have been updated to adapt to working with LED lighting.  There is not much too that.
 
RGB lighting has been utilized for years relating to using DMX (entertainment - venues - et al).
 
The sell is typically relating to the forever lamp and priced accordingly.  IE: just a couple of years back that kitchen can LED spot was $80-$100. 
 
Lighting is still evolving; it's not soup yet. 
 
Incandescent ==> gas filled luminescent ==> LED ==> electroluminescent ==> laser ==> minimal power draw......do what works for you today would be my suggestion and assume the changes of the future.
 
Here been tinkering mostly and practical using less and waiting more for the dust to settle.  

 

[mikefamig]

Truly with new today you really do not need RG coaxial cable. 

 
This depends on where you live. In my neighborhood I have four TV services available.
 
1 Frontier Communications IPTV (previously ATT UVERSE)
2 Cox Cable
3 Direct TV satellite
4 maybe DISH TV satellite
 
Of the four services only one, Frontier IPTV, will function over ethernet cable. The others require coax as far as I know. I suspect that there may be ways to convert from coax to ethernet and then back again at the STB but I haven't done the research and I'm sure that it would get messy.
 
Mike.

 

[pete_c]

Wow!
 
I didn't know that.
 
Just recently here (or there) my Verizon Email was switched to AOL and in the last few weeks has gone to Frontier.
 
Here in the midwest AT&T came to our subdivision (which was all Comcast for Internet / television and what have you).  Rather than upgrade the infrastructure; they used the 10 year old plus underground coaxial cable.  (their known methodology was fiber boxes with catXX cable going to the houses; well and versus the Verizon fiber directly to the home infrastructure). Here utilized the RG cable for satellite STB's.  (both DISH and DirectTV).  Originally wanted a small dish here so went with one with some 6 dual LNBs; oval but small footprint (DIYed sort of except for the LNB holders).  I did come from the BUD days of television and went to DTV as soon as it was available (alway tinkering).  I had a 3 meter dish in the back yard way long time ago.
 
All of the television STBs are coaxially connected with their own IPs.  The combination box provides both coaxial and ethernet connectivity, and firewall, router switch and AP connectivity.  Here for intenet bypassed those functions bridging one port to another and going to my own stuff.  Left the TV stuff alone.  I do have two networks in the house.  One for TV and one for Internet and one for wireless (added my own AP).  I did have issues with the Motorola STB / HDMI outputs.  They didn't work and had to use component video out of the STBs for HD (what a pita that was).  Thinking it was a firmware issue as HDMI was relatively new back then.
 
In the small 50 home subdivision in FL Comcast still had it cables on the telephone poles and they were old and they were selling HD television (except it didn't work).  When Verizon came in they put the fiber underground.  I called almost every two weeks opening a service ticket with Comcast about moving their cables underground.  They were the last wires on the telephone poles there and the trees and the wires in the neighborhood didn't mix well and it was up to the homeowners to trim their own trees.

 

[Del91574]

The biggest thing is to know how the CATV guys are sending the signal on their end. Before I switched over, they moved from analog to IP based STB's and at that point, it's really moot what the media inside the house between A and B is, but converting to the native format would add to the expense compared to the trivial price of getting the cable there in the first place.

 

[mikefamig]

The biggest thing is to know how the CATV guys are sending the signal on their end. Before I switched over, they moved from analog to IP based STB's and at that point, it's really moot what the media inside the house between A and B is, but converting to the native format would add to the expense compared to the trivial price of getting the cable there in the first place.

 
I understand that the IP based STB that Uverse and Frontier in Connecticut use can use either coax or CAT cable but that the Cox STB can only use coax according to COX tech support.
 
I do not know what sort of signal the COX system is transmitting in the house but I have always assumed that it was a digital system as opposed to analog AV for many years now. If it is digital I don't understand why it can't be carried over a twisted pair.
 
Mike.