drvnbysound
Senior Member
On my "surveillance" server, I do have the OS in a mirrored array, but I have a single 4TB drive that supports my video storage for over 12 days. I understand the risks associated with a single drive and am 100% OK with it.
Setting up IP camera server
- Thread starter newalarm
- Start date
drvnbysound
Senior Member
I've been building desktop boxes since around the 2002 time frame and typically re-format my regular use machines every 2-3 years, so I'm very used to re-installing Windows and re-building etc.
I didn't want to get into that situation with my surveillance system, which is why I did the RAID on the OS.
However, I didn't feel it was necessary for my residential stored video. If the drive fails, I can temporarily begin storing video to an alternate location while a new HDD would be able to be purchased (or delivered) in 1-2 days. A couple of days of missing video just isn't that critical to me because the chance of it happening is so low. If you do configure as RAID, you also have a chance that your RAID controller fails too.
I didn't want to get into that situation with my surveillance system, which is why I did the RAID on the OS.
However, I didn't feel it was necessary for my residential stored video. If the drive fails, I can temporarily begin storing video to an alternate location while a new HDD would be able to be purchased (or delivered) in 1-2 days. A couple of days of missing video just isn't that critical to me because the chance of it happening is so low. If you do configure as RAID, you also have a chance that your RAID controller fails too.
drvnbysound
Senior Member
I highly recommend using this tool or something similar to estimate your storage requirements:
http://www.axis.com/us/en/products/video/design_tool/v2/
It's typically best if you also find a Axis model that is capable of 4MP first so you can select that camera for the tool. Off the top of my head, I actually don't recall if the tool supports that resolution, as I've stayed with 1080p (2MP) for a while now.
EDIT: A quick check showed me that 3MP and 5MP are available via the tool.
http://www.axis.com/us/en/products/video/design_tool/v2/
It's typically best if you also find a Axis model that is capable of 4MP first so you can select that camera for the tool. Off the top of my head, I actually don't recall if the tool supports that resolution, as I've stayed with 1080p (2MP) for a while now.
EDIT: A quick check showed me that 3MP and 5MP are available via the tool.
Found these too. for my set up as it exists, for 14 days, i would need over 4TB. Ouch.
http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/tools/security-nvr-storage-calculator
http://www.security-camera-warehouse.com/cctv-record-time-calculator.php
http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/tools/security-nvr-storage-calculator
http://www.security-camera-warehouse.com/cctv-record-time-calculator.php
drvnbysound
Senior Member
Here's a use case question. In what scenario would you need a month of video?
For example, I've worked with industry personnel before who stated that their need was 3-4 days. In the event that something occurred late on a Friday afternoon/evening, Monday was a holiday, and they would be performing the reporting and such on Tuesday.... just didn't want to have to file all the paperwork while they were walking out the door on a Friday.
I check activity on my system on an almost daily basis so I have an idea of what's going on almost all the time. If something were to occur, such as a break in, the LATEST that I would know is when I got home that afternoon/evening. The longest period for me would be in the event that an event occurred while I was on vacation (the longest I've ever taken has been a week). Technically, assuming the system wasn't taken, I could still log in and access the data remotely if needed. Even if it was taken, there are measures where data can be backed up via FTP to an offsite location as well.
At the time of my purchase, a 4TB drive was more cost effective for me than a 6TB drive was, so that was the route I went.... and I get what I do based on that storage size. That's not always the case, as there are scenarios where the "requirement" is XX days of storage and the cost is what it is.
For example, I've worked with industry personnel before who stated that their need was 3-4 days. In the event that something occurred late on a Friday afternoon/evening, Monday was a holiday, and they would be performing the reporting and such on Tuesday.... just didn't want to have to file all the paperwork while they were walking out the door on a Friday.
I check activity on my system on an almost daily basis so I have an idea of what's going on almost all the time. If something were to occur, such as a break in, the LATEST that I would know is when I got home that afternoon/evening. The longest period for me would be in the event that an event occurred while I was on vacation (the longest I've ever taken has been a week). Technically, assuming the system wasn't taken, I could still log in and access the data remotely if needed. Even if it was taken, there are measures where data can be backed up via FTP to an offsite location as well.
At the time of my purchase, a 4TB drive was more cost effective for me than a 6TB drive was, so that was the route I went.... and I get what I do based on that storage size. That's not always the case, as there are scenarios where the "requirement" is XX days of storage and the cost is what it is.
A month is the standard benchmark....the big thing to consider is whether or not you're going to check on it, how intelligent your system is (generally you're not going to get real good analytics on consumer level).
Storage is generally cheap. Actually, I'd suggest a NAS set up as a RAID or true ISCSI and call it a day. They're really cheap these days. Same with 1TB drives. It's easier and cheaper to build the RAID and create a larger virtual volume than buy the larger single drive.More fault tolerant also.
Also keep in mind, the requirement to keep that large of an image and resolution is really unrealistic. You're really not going to see the difference between 20 FPS and 15 FPS. Hell, even most applications aren't going to see the need for 30 FPS.....you're not trying to capture license plates on moving vehicles. The realistic thing is to change standard recording vs. alarm recording and the appropriate quality, FPS changes and then compression. Even in a commercial application where we have 5MP cameras up to 20MP cameras, to record at the maximum FPS, image size and quality is insane. You'd probably have your network start to choke first.
One site has 96TB servers with attached storage......and even then, it's not feasible for us to record at the rates and qualities that are being discussed.
Storage is generally cheap. Actually, I'd suggest a NAS set up as a RAID or true ISCSI and call it a day. They're really cheap these days. Same with 1TB drives. It's easier and cheaper to build the RAID and create a larger virtual volume than buy the larger single drive.More fault tolerant also.
Also keep in mind, the requirement to keep that large of an image and resolution is really unrealistic. You're really not going to see the difference between 20 FPS and 15 FPS. Hell, even most applications aren't going to see the need for 30 FPS.....you're not trying to capture license plates on moving vehicles. The realistic thing is to change standard recording vs. alarm recording and the appropriate quality, FPS changes and then compression. Even in a commercial application where we have 5MP cameras up to 20MP cameras, to record at the maximum FPS, image size and quality is insane. You'd probably have your network start to choke first.
One site has 96TB servers with attached storage......and even then, it's not feasible for us to record at the rates and qualities that are being discussed.
pete_c
Guru
Here I have suggested to new alarm to go baby steps as he wants to DIY his NVR build using Ubuntu ZM for his residential DIY'd NVR / CCTV stuff.
NewAlarm did do a big spend on pallets (literally) of hardware and he is selling off what he will not be using and currently choosing what hardware from the pallets he will be utilizing. IE: Cisco POE switch and Server(s) so far.
NewAlarm also purchased three new IP HD cameras for the start of his endeavor.
Meanwhile NewAlarm does only have a few used drives for his servers such that for the time bean it is easier (no spend) to get familiar with Linux Ubuntu and build a base ZM box. It really takes a few minutes and mostly right now it will be a learning experience in Linux. Once though configured you do not have to know much about linux as ZM web based management does everything.
NewAlarm did do a big spend on pallets (literally) of hardware and he is selling off what he will not be using and currently choosing what hardware from the pallets he will be utilizing. IE: Cisco POE switch and Server(s) so far.
NewAlarm also purchased three new IP HD cameras for the start of his endeavor.
Meanwhile NewAlarm does only have a few used drives for his servers such that for the time bean it is easier (no spend) to get familiar with Linux Ubuntu and build a base ZM box. It really takes a few minutes and mostly right now it will be a learning experience in Linux. Once though configured you do not have to know much about linux as ZM web based management does everything.
Actually, i need to order some drives. The camera server will be the 2.5" drive machine. It seems like i can install 2TB drives in the r710.
I was looking at these: https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Drives-2-5-Inch-Internal-STBD2000102/dp/B00MBLX332/ref=sr_1_3?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1470933407&sr=1-3&keywords=sata+2tb+hard+drive+2.5%22+enterprise+sata&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_three_browse-bin%3A4990425011%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_four_browse-bin%3A8067152011
2TB, SATA II, 3Gb/s interface, 5400RPM at $111. The SATA III are about 2 to 3 times that price.
Can I start out with 2 of these? With RAID, can you add drives later?
I was looking at these: https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Drives-2-5-Inch-Internal-STBD2000102/dp/B00MBLX332/ref=sr_1_3?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1470933407&sr=1-3&keywords=sata+2tb+hard+drive+2.5%22+enterprise+sata&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_three_browse-bin%3A4990425011%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_four_browse-bin%3A8067152011
2TB, SATA II, 3Gb/s interface, 5400RPM at $111. The SATA III are about 2 to 3 times that price.
Can I start out with 2 of these? With RAID, can you add drives later?
Looks like 1TB drives are little cheaper, and faster.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0088PUEPK/ref=psdc_1254762011_t2_B00B4QESVQ
For home use, is there much difference between enterprise and a common HD?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0088PUEPK/ref=psdc_1254762011_t2_B00B4QESVQ
For home use, is there much difference between enterprise and a common HD?
pete_c
Guru
Can I start out with 2 of these?
yes (raid 1 mirror array)
With RAID, can you add drives later?
no and yes.
Once you have built a raid array you can swap out a bad drive and the raid will build itself back.
That said you can not change a raid say from a 1 to a 5 to 10 in dynamically.
For home use, is there much difference between enterprise and a common HD?
It is written that it is different. Last NAS drives I purchased 2 Gb enterprise drives. (for a song and a dance - bulk packs).
It used to be that the average HD had a 3 year warranty. Many new ones today have a 1 year warranty.
One of the older NAS boxes here is using Seagate 1Tb drives (5 of them - 4 are used in the array and one is a hot spare not used in the raid array). One bit the dust after about 6 months of use. I replaced it, purchased another hot spare and it's been now over 3 years and they are still doing OKey Dokey.
ZM records 24 / 7 and saves events based on defined triggers. IE: an event trigger will do a rewind and save of the event. You can too just configure it to record 24/7 if you wanted to.
I do and do not pay attention sometimes. IE: a couple of years ago wife ordered something. She asked me if we received it. I said I didn't remember. Checking on the tracking the package had been delivered.
I kept stating that I didn't see any package.
Well went to looking at ZM at time of delivery and saw a video of me picking up the package and leaving it in the garage (automatically) and just leaving it on a shelf walking to the door in the garage.
Went to the garage and the package was where I left it. This did justify the CCTV NVR stuff with wife.
yes (raid 1 mirror array)
With RAID, can you add drives later?
no and yes.
Once you have built a raid array you can swap out a bad drive and the raid will build itself back.
That said you can not change a raid say from a 1 to a 5 to 10 in dynamically.
For home use, is there much difference between enterprise and a common HD?
It is written that it is different. Last NAS drives I purchased 2 Gb enterprise drives. (for a song and a dance - bulk packs).
It used to be that the average HD had a 3 year warranty. Many new ones today have a 1 year warranty.
One of the older NAS boxes here is using Seagate 1Tb drives (5 of them - 4 are used in the array and one is a hot spare not used in the raid array). One bit the dust after about 6 months of use. I replaced it, purchased another hot spare and it's been now over 3 years and they are still doing OKey Dokey.
ZM records 24 / 7 and saves events based on defined triggers. IE: an event trigger will do a rewind and save of the event. You can too just configure it to record 24/7 if you wanted to.
I do and do not pay attention sometimes. IE: a couple of years ago wife ordered something. She asked me if we received it. I said I didn't remember. Checking on the tracking the package had been delivered.
I kept stating that I didn't see any package.
Well went to looking at ZM at time of delivery and saw a video of me picking up the package and leaving it in the garage (automatically) and just leaving it on a shelf walking to the door in the garage.
Went to the garage and the package was where I left it. This did justify the CCTV NVR stuff with wife.
That is a pretty funny story. Sounds like something I would do 
What about speed. 5,400rpm, 3gb/s ok?
Or should I look at 7,200 6gb/s?
I guess the question was if I start with RAID 1 for example, with 2 drives, can I later come back and add two more drives (total of 4) and the system will just add those?
If I were to do RAID 5, would i need to have same size and spec drives?
What about speed. 5,400rpm, 3gb/s ok?
Or should I look at 7,200 6gb/s?
I guess the question was if I start with RAID 1 for example, with 2 drives, can I later come back and add two more drives (total of 4) and the system will just add those?
If I were to do RAID 5, would i need to have same size and spec drives?
newalarm said:That is a pretty funny story. Sounds like something I would do
What about speed. 5,400rpm, 3gb/s ok?
Or should I look at 7,200 6gb/s?
I guess the question was if I start with RAID 1 for example, with 2 drives, can I later come back and add two more drives (total of 4) and the system will just add those?
If I were to do RAID 5, would i need to have same size and spec drives?
I would go with 7200 / 6 gb/s drives. It's a decent boost.
Yes, raid 5 would need identical drives. In raid 5, I'd add an extra hot spare if you can.
With the R710 hardware you have, it would be pretty easy to install a hypervisor on it and run your OS as a VM. You could then spin up multiple OS's each dedicated to specific tasks.
I have a Dell T620 with 12 drives (8 in raid 10) that I run a dozen VM's on. Getting ready to add another VM just for running Blue Iris.
