single-gang outlet + LV

[miamicanes]

Does anybody make a single-gang variant of divided electrical boxes that provides an enclosed, code-compliant electrical box big enough for exactly one (proprietary) outlet that's ~2/3 the height of a "normal" single-gang box, with room for a pair of side-by-side LV keystones in the other third ("outside" the high-voltage area)? Say, with "decora" form factor, so to someone looking at it from the "room" side, it appeared to be a single-gang decora plate with one 120v outlet & a pair of keystone ports for ${whatever}?

It seems like something that's such a no-brainer, *someone* has to have done it... but I've had zero luck with Google so far. Even if there were arbitrary code issues arising from minimum box interior volume, they could just design it to hide the required remaining third of the interior below or to one side.

I *have* seen combo boxes at Home Depot that stick a phone jack & 75-ohm barrel onto an oversized faceplate that presumably overhangs a normal box, but nothing suitable for terminating ethernet into a RJ-45, and nothing at all with the ideal compact form factor of a wall outlet + keystone or two on a single Decora plate (divided behind the wall)

Things it would be useful for:

* Bathroom TV. Pull two cat5e cables, a RG-6, and 120v Romex to the box site, and be ready for almost any conceivable future use w/only a single-gang footprint.

* IP camera. One cat5e and awg14 Romex. Bonus points if the box comes in a variant with internal switched 2A power supply for 5/9/12v and external 2.1/5mm barrel jack.


Alternative variant: single-gang Decora form factor, LV-only. Feed it a single cat5 w/real PoE or fake-injected noncompliant DC (12v for 5v, 18-24v for 12v), and get a 10/100 ethernet port and 2.1/5.0 barrel jack with 5v/12v for non-PoE network devices.

 

[tmbrown97]

Between code, separation, and standards - I'm not sure you'll find what you're looking for.

Your very last sentence though - about feeding a single Cat5 - well, you can do that and use something like this to split it out cleanly. There are also devices which will take "standard" 802.3af POE and give you an output for 12 or 24V.

 

[apostolakisl]

I am picturing this as a single gang box cut in half along the long side of the rectangle resulting in two nearly square spaces. Correct?

There are companies that make custom face plates so I would imagine you could have a receptacle hole on the bottom and side by side keystones on the top half. Dividing a double gang box is certainly code compliant and I would assume you can split a single gang box if you wanted, but you would have to make your own divider and probably the inspector would look at you funny. The thing I can't imagine is how you are going to get a single outlet to mount in that cut in half box. I have never seen a 120vac receptacle that has anyway to mount it except to a standard full sized gang box.

 

[Del91574]

You're not going to find it to my knowledge, I know of no outlets that would only be 1/2 of a standard duplex and still facilitate normal mounting methods. Even a normal single gang deep box, divided in such a manner, would not allow a workable bend radius on the LV cables, coax or category cabling. Hell, it's even borderline getting the bend radius with a mud ring on a 4" square box.

You are not able to "field modify" an enclosure by fabricating your own divider. Needs to carry it's listing.

Only way I can see to do this is to go to a 2 gang unit or a "sidecar" mount to the side of an existing box, either closed or mud ring style. If you go this route, you could have the rockers bury the LV "side" and then deal with on a case by case basis.

If you're dealing with power issues, you could consider POE+, but the maximum theoretical available is going to be 36 watts.

 

[Westcojack]

We have used this before, but it has as surface mounted box.
Hubbell ETSELECT JLOAD Standard Multimedia 20 Amp Unloaded Outlet

URL http://www.twacomm.com/catalog/Hubbell_netselect-jload-std-multimda-20amp-unloaded-outlet.htm

Are you looking for something like that?

 

[miamicanes]

In this specific case, I'm trying to come up with something better for my non-PoE Foscam PTZ camera. My original plan (and plan I'm probably stuck with) is to put a conventional double-gang half-LV/half-power box inside the closet on the other side of the wall, then drill a hole through the wall on both sides, pull both cables through, and connect them out of view.

I'm pretty much taking for granted that a partitioned single-gang LV+power box would have to be 100% proprietary, because no normal outlet would fit in it. Still, nothing about what I'm describing seems to be all that revolutionary, besides the fact that it would be kind of a niche special purpose item. Then again, so are things like momentary-contact SPDT Decora paddle switches, switch+outlet+pilot light combos, and Leviton's 3-in-1 single-gang Decora-style triple switches. If nothing else, maybe someone with the means to get something like this approved will decide it would be a handy niche item and go for it

I actually own the exact adapter shown above (for faux PoE), but unfortunately, the power supply is 5v, regulated, and the cameras have close to zero tolerance for reduced voltage. I AM halfway contemplating a Decora-style single-gang outlet + 2 USB ports, and combining it with a USB-to-1.3mm barrel adapter (I could swear I saw them at Amazon). But that still leaves the network cable that has to either go through an unceremonious hole in the wall, or double the size of the outlet box. Basically, the camera is garish enough... I really don't want to stick a gigantic double-gang box next to it on the wall.

Maybe something like this: (" [ ] " is a keystone hole, if it's not obvious)

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By the same token, it's too bad somebody can't take the design for a LV mount and Decora-style keystone plate, then remove 1/3 of the height to turn it into a nice "Decora-Square" LV outlet that's the width of a single-gang Decora fitting, and the same height, with 1 or 2 keystone holes for things that don't need lots of space, like a single PoE-equipped ethernet jack, a pair of banana plugs, etc.

 

[tmbrown97]

If you're concerned about appearance, here's another thought:

What about using an outlet like this one - and using a LV piggyback box next to it. This should accept a standard blank double-gang cover which you could attach the camera itself to and have the wires come through a small hole that you drill - letting you leave the slack in the wall. Given the size of the base of a PTZ it seems to me like it would look OK.

So all you'd actually see would be a double-gang blank which the camera itself is mounted to - and all the wiring is hidden behind it.

Otherwise - the outlet that westcojack showed looked perfect! I didn't look at the specs close enough to see if their special split box is suited for normal construction, but if so that seems like exactly what you're looking for.

And last - if you want to go with the passive POE splitter like I linked above - you mention that the camera is sensitive to undervoltage - but who's to say you can't provide your own power supply? Maybe something that even allows for minor adjustment to bump it up if needed.

 

[apostolakisl]

We have used this before, but it has as surface mounted box.
Hubbell ETSELECT JLOAD Standard Multimedia 20 Amp Unloaded Outlet

URL http://www.twacomm.c...aded-outlet.htm

Are you looking for something like that?

The above would appear to be the exact configuration you are looking for. Correct? But I have troubles understanding how you get this to pass code since you need either a "listed divider" or "permanent divider". It would need a special gang box to have a divider that blocks going horizontally and also allows for that receptacle to fit. Perhaps exception 2? Not really sure if a camera counts as "communications equipment".


800.133 Installation of Communications Wires, Cables, and Equipment. (A) Separation from Other Conductors. (1) In Raceways, Cable Trays, Boxes, and Cables. (c) Electric Light, Power, Class 1, Non–Power-Limited Fire Alarm, and Medium-Power Network-Powered Broadband Communications Circuits in Raceways, Compartments, and Boxes.
Communications conductors shall not be placed in any raceway, compartment, outlet box, junction box, or similar fitting with conductors of electric light, power, Class 1, non–power-limited fire alarm, or medium-power network-powered broadband communications circuits.
Exception No. 1: Where all of the conductors of electric light, power, Class 1, non–power-limited fire alarm, and medium-power network-powered broadband communications circuits are separated from all of the conductors of communications circuits by a permanent barrier or listed divider.
Exception No. 2: Power conductors in outlet boxes, junction boxes, or similar fittings or compartments where such conductors are introduced solely for power supply to communications equipment. The power circuit conductors shall be routed within the enclosure to maintain a minimum of 6 mm (0.25 in.) separation from the communications circuit conductors.

 

[ecborgoyn]

This is the required box: http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/HomeSelect/datasheet.asp?PN=RJ600

 

[apostolakisl]

This is the required box: http://www.hubbellca...et.asp?PN=RJ600

Well there you have it. Problem solved. Except this is not for "old construction" so you'll have to do some sheetrock work to get it in the wall.

 

[ecborgoyn]

Guess you can't have everything.... I don't see an 'old-work' version currently.

I also see a US Patent application: (US20080160826) for the device(s). So perhaps Hubbell will make or license an old-work version soon.

 

[apostolakisl]

Guess you can't have everything.... I don't see an 'old-work' version currently.

I also see a US Patent application: ([font=ms sans serif']US20080160826[/font]) for the device(s). So perhaps Hubbell will make or license an old-work version soon.

Not the end of the world. You might be able to get those little metal clips to work. Of course you have to pry the old one out without buggering up the walls. It also appears that the dimensions are a little off from typical with that offset placement of the screws.

EDIT: I was looking at those offset screws and couldn't figure out the deal. After some thought, I think the deal is they want to make sure you only use that outlet in their special divided box so they made the unique screw placement.

 

[DIYHO]

Carlon makes both a code compliant combo box (line and low), a divider for regular boxes, and an add on bracket. I have made use of all three of these in my house.

http://www.carlonsales.com/techinfo/brochures/lvpremise/Structured_Cable_Management_Systems_Brochure.pdf

 

[Del91574]

Not to over simplify this, but for the 5V does the camera use a wall wart or similar?

If so, why not convert it over to a centralized power source and then use LV cabling to feed it power. The better power supplies will have trim pots to adjust the voltage output so you could guarantee the voltage is within spec of the wall wart it's replacing.

 

[ecborgoyn]

Carlon makes both a code compliant combo box (line and low), a divider for regular boxes, and an add on bracket. I have made use of all three of these in my house.

Multi-gang divided boxes are much more common. The OP is looking for a single-gang solution. I agree that the Carlon devices are a great solution if you want both line voltage and LV in the same 'hole in the wall'.