Single HTPC for content to all of the rooms.

[forumsviewercocoon]

Hello Everyone,

I have been reading the site and forums for weeks now and really enjoy the content and the willingness for others to shine in with their expertise and knowledge. This post and thread may be exhausting at first but hopefully it is very beneficial and a place for others to gain knowledge from through the discussions.

I have project that I would like to begin on but would first like to get some opinions of others who know more about this than I. I have envisioned what I want to do and have happen, but just not entirely sure what direction to take with it. Note that I realize that this is a project and so it is self-rewarding for myself to successfully implement what I would like to do.

I have a home with 6 TV's in seperate rooms. The home was built in 2000 so to the rooms only have coaxial cable and of course TV and some rooms telephone wire. All of the coaxial cable does bulk up into a utility closet in the basement at a centralized location.

I want to design out a HTPC type system that has all of my DVD's loaded onto it on the hard drive and be able to specify what room gets what movie at what time. This is an incentive tool for the kids to be able to do chores for the ability to essentially pick a movie, time and location they want to watch the movie with their friends.

Over time as this will be an ongoing project for myself personally as a hobby I do want to try to avoid propreitary equipment and software anywhere I can. The reason being is because once I have the basic functionality down, I want to be able to program "credits" that my kids get for certain chores and then ues the "credits" that they have for certain movies or like more credits to watch the movie on the big screen TV or later at night. I know that this will be an ongoing project by doing this but it is a hobby of mine to program and get outcomes based upon what I would like to do as I highly doubt there is a commercialized project like this to basically bribe kids! It will be like a little economy within my house and hopefully will be a learning lesson for my kids that if they want something (like a particular movie) or convenience/luxury (larger TV) that they only get credits (like money) to do chores (like work) and they can use their credits any way they want. If they want a particular movie (like new movie we just bought) or larger TV, they have to pay more for it and they will learn value and economics very well within the home (we all know the school system doesnt teach it!)

Below are some requirements and questions that I would absolutely LOVE if I could get some assistance and opinions concerning.

REQUIREMENTS:

• Each bedroom is wired with coaxial cable. I assume I will need to use some type of ethernet over coaxial and a receiver or "extender" at each TV location.
• One server to potentially display different content to 6 rooms. Keyword "different" content. Several movies may be accessed from the HTPC at the same time.
• Non-proprietary (if possible) as I have some additional programming and features I will over time want to implement.

ADDITIONAL NOTES:

• I am going to start out with not having menus/remotes etc at each TV location. Everything will be controlled through a GUI or web based GUI on my laptop or VNC into the HTPC to specify what room, what movie and what time.
• I do want to eventually program something to give kids credits for particular chores and then setup a laptop or ipad or something in the living room that they can pick what movie they want, what room they want and what time and the HTPC will take that and then do accordingly. I realize that I will have to write the script/program for the credits but i'm sure that the licensing with some open source or non-proprietary hardware/software in this project will allow me to API into it.

QUESTIONS:

1. What computer hardware (if applicable) such as tv tuner cards, video cards, sound cards is required to display different content to different TV's from single HTPC source?
2. What software (if applicable) is required to display different content to different TV's? Is there some features in SageTV or some type of linux solution with virtualization that can do this from single HTPC source?
3. If not computer hardware or software, what third party product (like HDMI product or switches or matrix) is required to display different content to different TV's from single HTPC source?
4. What already designed video playing GUI (SageTV, Windows Media Center) has an API or is open source that will allow me to build in my own functionalities such as the credit system that I may eventually program?
5. Is there a piece of hardware like a manageed HDMI switch such as that of a managed network switch that will allow me to open/close ports/traffic according to the software functionality that I program for the variable of time?
6. What pieces of equipment will need to be used to basically send digital content through the existing coaxial lines? I am assuming that the quality wont be bad for extenders or controlers for things like ethernet over coaxial?

I cannot stress that I realize that this may end up being a big sized project. I love digital work, programming, etc so it is more of a hobby for me rather than actual "need" or "want". I don't care too much about costs involved. Money isnt the motive here, it is more of truly being a DIY'er. I know that I could hire some Crestron or other commercial type company in, blow a huge wad of cash and get exactly what i'm looking for but I simply want to go about doing this myself so that I have full control and can implement and program additional features (such as the credit system) and at the end of the day receive the self-satisfaction that only comes when working on something yourself (with the help of you guys of course!).

Thank You,

 

[Neurorad]

Welcome to CT.

Seems many here are partial to SageTV, sharing sources over a home LAN.

You could consider turning your coax cables into a LAN, using MoCA.

Many SageTV threads here at CT.

Here's a link to a post at the SageTV forums, where a user states he's had success with MoCA:

 

[pete_c]

Welcome to the forum.

Forum is plentiful with all kinds of information and stories relating to uniquely done AV adventures; each unique in its own way but much is drawn upon other's experience. You've come to the right place; many many FAQ's are here.

Personally I am still "stuck" back to the future with both analogue and digital means of multimedia. Still utilize a couple of older Tivos although the house is almost ll LCD's now. Analogue that I "broadcast" a couple of channels via the RG6 coaxial cables and digital in that I use set top boxes (NMT's) with the ability to stream internet video, audio and do in house local or networked video. For whatever reason I have a mix of NAS, UPNP and locally served media (put in 1TB drives in the media tanks). Therefore a bit over kill with copies of copies of DiVx and Blueray movies and music. I don't serve any of the media wirelessly and have multiple Cat5E (6) to each of the bedrooms. There's also a mix of MS MCE and extenders in there. IE: like one Cat5 for the desktop PC and another for the TV in the bedrooms. Think I spent more time on the electronics of the home office LCD (mounted high up on a wall) than actually watching it. Same with the LCD in the laundry room. The "boxes" all sit in one area on a "rack" and from here distribution goes to the rest of the house. For TV shows etc now utilize Satellite, Cable, OTA and most recently playing with streaming broadcast TV (kind of a la carte); but I really don't watch commercial TV (or even news) except for some older 60's TV shows; wife does though. Audio is similiar still a bit analogue and a bit digital.

Lately its been little Chumby's cropping up here and there; mushroom like; wife is starting to wonder?

I guess you could use RFID / smart cards "a la ATM" for chore "credits" with your kids.

I still think if I was starting over again what I would do differently .....

 

[electron]

QUESTIONS:

1. What computer hardware (if applicable) such as tv tuner cards, video cards, sound cards is required to display different content to different TV's from single HTPC source?
2. What software (if applicable) is required to display different content to different TV's? Is there some features in SageTV or some type of linux solution with virtualization that can do this from single HTPC source?
3. If not computer hardware or software, what third party product (like HDMI product or switches or matrix) is required to display different content to different TV's from single HTPC source?
4. What already designed video playing GUI (SageTV, Windows Media Center) has an API or is open source that will allow me to build in my own functionalities such as the credit system that I may eventually program?
5. Is there a piece of hardware like a manageed HDMI switch such as that of a managed network switch that will allow me to open/close ports/traffic according to the software functionality that I program for the variable of time?
6. What pieces of equipment will need to be used to basically send digital content through the existing coaxial lines? I am assuming that the quality wont be bad for extenders or controlers for things like ethernet over coaxial?

IMO, you have 3 options: Windows MCE (only extenders available is the Xbox360), MythTV (open source, free, but it can be troublesome to get going/maintain). Out of those 3, SageTV is the best choice (IMO). SageTV is JAVA based, and has a very powerful plugin architecture. Extenders are small, support wireless (so no need to worry about Ethernet over coax), and the whole system is 'distributed'. Check out my diagram for more info.

1) SageTV: 1 PC (doesn't even need a fancy video card), can be Linux or Windows, and extenders everywhere else.
2) SageTV: Supports different menus based on the extender (so the kids room can have a kids friendly menu)
3) SageTV: none if you are using extenders
4) SageTV
5) Use home automation to shut down the extenders, or control them via TCP/IP
6) N/A

 

[Lagerhead]

...SageTV is the best choice (IMO)... ...Extenders are small, support wireless (so no need to worry about Ethernet over coax), and the whole system is 'distributed'...

I am asking similar questions because of cable rate increases and the recent elimination of analog channels, so I believe this is on-topic.

1. Does SageTV with the extenders support HDMI at the TV?
2. How do you handle the cable (or satellite) inputs to avoid renting multiple set-top boxes, multiple receivers, additional outlet charges, etc.? -- i.e., only pay once for cable service.

 

[electron]

1) Yep, using it that way myself.
2) Right now, I have a 2nd set top box, plus a bunch of OTA/QAM tuners. Not the best scenario, but am hoping to use one of the CableCARD tuners in the near future (since some people already have it working with SageTV).

 

[forumsviewercocoon]

Seems many here are partial to SageTV, sharing sources over a home LAN.

You could consider turning your coax cables into a LAN, using MoCA.

Yes, i've noticed many enjoy SageTV. It seems to be very versatile. One aspect that has really perked my ears most about SageTV is the extenders at the rooms. The extenders are what requests the media from the server therefore eliminating the need for multiple video cards, tv tuner cards, etc from the HTPC. Are there other ways outside of SageTV?

My next thought process with this being said is that the extenders that are basically requesting the media from the HTPC and then the HTPC responds with content, are any of these extenders linux based or semi-open sourced or come with some API or development kits so that I have more control? The reason being is because the extenders, based upon my knoweldge, for SageTV are designed for someone to utilize the UI of SageTV from on the TV that the extender is located. This isn't what I want to do as I want to control from my laptop to HTPC (sageTV or whatever) to say "play X-Men on TV 1 at 8:00pm". My thought behind this would be just to have the extender there to basically accept the signal or atleast request the signal from the HTPC so tht there is no remote or real control at the TV. It may seem a little contradictory to what many people would want in their home but for this project that I want to do it is necessary for the TV not to be able to access the HTPC to request info.

 

[electron]

I highly recommend you play with the SageTV trial. It's JAVA based, so it isn't intrusive at all. Then take a look at all the kinds of plugins which are available, and wait for the 'AHA' moment The software extenders (placeshifter/client) behave/look almost exactly the same way as the hardware extenders, so you can simulate this setup. That said, there is nothing stopping you building a small Linux based appliance which runs the SageTV extender software, but you should be able to do whatever you want to do with the hardware extenders, as long as you don't mind programming.

 

[JimS]

Since you said you were up for programming and want more control you should at least look at MythTV. All open source I believe. It has been linked to various HA software (misterhouse comes to mind - also a steep learning curve but you said programming was ok). There are Linux distribution packages such as Mythdora (Fedora +MythTV) that are fairly easy to get running to take a look.

MythTV would require a "front end" PC for each TV that is networked to the "back end" (tuners, etc). With so many TVs Sage may be cheaper.

 

[tmbrown97]

Also, with Sage, you could give them the extender but not the remotes; using IR repeaters to turn things on when it's time.
Also, what about JRMC? I remember you can have separate Targets you control from a central location; it would require PC's instead of extenders for each TV, but IIRC, you can have a library of videos with that and from a central place dictate what plays at each destination.

 

[forumsviewercocoon]

Also, with Sage, you could give them the extender but not the remotes; using IR repeaters to turn things on when it's time.
Also, what about JRMC? I remember you can have separate Targets you control from a central location; it would require PC's instead of extenders for each TV, but IIRC, you can have a library of videos with that and from a central place dictate what plays at each destination.

I definitely do not want remotes or for the TV area to have access to the HTPC. I want the HTPC to be the brains and i'll control the HTPC through putty, VNC or through my own extender softawre on my laptop (because i'll eventually create an app or something for an ipad for the kids to use to use their "credits". As you said, I could use IR repeaters to basically turn the device on at the appropriate time of when a movie should be showing on that TV given that I can somehow program the HTPC (SageTV, MythTV or other) to say "play X movie at X time at X TV (extender)" and it will do that.

I just looked up JRMC and i'm not entirely positive on whether it would work with this. I haven't done too much research about JRMC but it seems as though there is more "gray area" concerning things like extenders and what works and what doesnt. What I do like about JRMC is less heavy in terms of already implemented features which would allow me to program in my own features that I want. However, I believe that SageTV will also let me basically dumb things down, atleast on the receiving TV's end. The biggest concern I had that I haven't figured out yet is it seems like JRMC is a Windows only application? I wouldn't want to buy Windows license per each TV area.

I highly recommend you play with the SageTV trial. It's JAVA based, so it isn't intrusive at all. Then take a look at all the kinds of plugins which are available, and wait for the 'AHA' moment The software extenders (placeshifter/client) behave/look almost exactly the same way as the hardware extenders, so you can simulate this setup. That said, there is nothing stopping you building a small Linux based appliance which runs the SageTV extender software, but you should be able to do whatever you want to do with the hardware extenders, as long as you don't mind programming.

Now your post gave me a 'AHA' moment without even checking out the SageTV trial! You stated two things that really caught my attention.

1) Is to potentially use the software extender (placeshifter) on a small custom Linux appliance and maniputlate or edit placeshifter software to only have the features or do what I want. I assume placeshifter is open source or has a good developer package?

2) You said that I should be able to do whatever I want with hardware extenders as long as I don't mind programming. Can you expound a little bit? Are you telling me that SageTV compatible products such as the SageTV HD300 can be tweaked/changed according to my specification? Like the operating system in the appliance isn't locked or proprietary?

3) With this discussion about extenders and potentially software extenders (in a custom linux appliance) are there OEM companies or maybe general "linux appliance boxes" that are small such as the size or smaller of current SageTV extenders that would allow me to develop my own small linux appliance with custom "extender" type software so that I get the control I want?

With all of this information it reminds me of the original saying that I realize what i'm getting into and this project may be pretty large for such a small use. But it is fun isn't it!

 

[electron]

The software/hardware are not open sourced, but the SageTV plugin system allows you to write plugins which can control almost any aspect of the SageTV interface and behavior. As for other appliances, the Hauppauge MediaMVP box can be used as a SageTV extender, but it isn't a HD box.

SageTV isn't perfect, but it does do a good job. I think of it as a 'commercial' version of MythTV, since they are somewhat similar in functionality and architecture, but has better support. MythTV might still be an option, depending on your video source requirements and willingness to spend a lot of time in tweaking things.

 

[potts.mike]

There is also a webserver portion to sage that allows you to control each extender. So if your kid earns enough credits or whatever you can use any webbrowser to start whatever he wants to watch.

There is also a robust API so that 3rd party apps can control the sage extenders.

 

[aksor]

Or you could buy a BOCS unit and hook up your HTPC then use the existing RG6 Cables that you already have available.

 

[forumsviewercocoon]

Or you could buy a BOCS unit and hook up your HTPC then use the existing RG6 Cables that you already have available.

I don't believe so, BOCS is only good for 3 rooms.