System Restorals(random resets)

[Elkman]

You didn't mention how the cabling and bus is connected, such as through physical connections/conductors or category cable. Part of the largest issue out there is RJ45's and improper crimping. Second to that is cable that is secured too tightly and cold flow of conductors.
 
Too tired to drag out the bus voltage specs, but Elk can provide the troubleshooting steps and what is within their spec. Ground faults are not dependent on the system being connected to earth ground.
 
You're going to need to split the bus/devices and meter or let the system run to see when it behaves and when there's issues.

 
My system experienced another reset today. Amy at Elk and DELInstallations have said that a bus short can cause a reset. This has been difficult for me to understand because the complex system works until it randomly resets. DELInstallations' above quote mentions that a cable secured too tightly can cold flow insulation. The CAT5 cable used for my bus runs has thin insulation on the wiring and I DO have the last two devices (ELK two-way and Honeywell receiver) daisy-chained with a piece of CAT5 that is pulled tight through the cap plate and run down through the wall! ARGH! This seems like a good place to start my serious troubleshooting! Again, thanks to you DELInstallations and Amy for your input. I will post the results of my troubleshooting.

 

[RAL]

Amy at Elk and DELInstallations have said that a bus short can cause a reset. This has been difficult for me to understand because the complex system works until it randomly resets.

 
 
A short can be intermittent.  As the house moves, possibly due vibrations or thermal expansion and contraction, a short can be there one moment and gone the next.  That makes it all the more difficult to find.  Also note that a short could occur inside a keypad or other device, rather than in the cabling.
 
As DEL suggested, try removing one data bus device at a time and then run the system without it to see if the problem is still present.  If it is, add that device back in and remove another one.  If your data bus devices are on home runs, this should be easy to do, as you can isolate each cable and device one by one.  If things are daisy chained, it'll be more difficult.

 

[Bubba579]

5/20 @8:51PM
5/22 @9:03PM
5/24 @11:47AM
@10:31PM
5/25 @11:53PM
5/29 @4:33AM

Are the last few times in the log file a reset has occurred.

The wires are all run through conduit up vertically on interior walls. The house is closed cell spray foam on exterior walls so there should be VERY little thermal expansion and contraction in the inner walls, (attic spaces on a 100+degree day are less than 5degrees different than interior spaces. )

It is noticed more at night because the keypads start beeping. (While armed)

During the day if we are home it may reset but will not continuously beep because it's not armed.

It will reset occasionally during the day and give me the joy of calling the monitoring company. To report a false alarm.

 

[drvnbysound]

Look at the times, they appear to be during fairly "normal" hours with the personal exception of the 5/29 at 4:33am - granted I know some are early risers! I'm not one of those types and fall to the other side, where it's not uncommon for me to be up after midnight.
 
So, based on that information, is there a particular zone that may be getting violated during these times? Otherwise, the timing is seemingly VERY random. 

 

[Del91574]

Since you're talking "complex" how about we talk about what's connected to the system, what there are for powered devices and similar......Without knowing if you split the bus/devices and tried removing or seeing how the problem goes, you're going to be at an impasse.
 
Since everything appears to mainly be towards the night hours, I would also put thermal into the realm of possible issues.
 
When you say conduit, that would also lead me to consider if the cable was damaged while pulling in the conduit, even if it's just a stub.

 

[Bubba579]

Look at the times, they appear to be during fairly "normal" hours with the personal exception of the 5/29 at 4:33am - granted I know some are early risers! I'm not one of those types and fall to the other side, where it's not uncommon for me to be up after midnight.
 
So, based on that information, is there a particular zone that may be getting violated during these times? Otherwise, the timing is seemingly VERY random. 

Thats just the last week, I was pulling that via eKey while I was eating lunch.

I'll pull a more recent log via RP and see if there's a statistical mean.

No zones are violated, sensors are stable. I tested with a fast response and no issues. Voltages are stable as best I can tell.

 

[Bubba579]

Since you're talking "complex" how about we talk about what's connected to the system, what there are for powered devices and similar......Without knowing if you split the bus/devices and tried removing or seeing how the problem goes, you're going to be at an impasse.
 
Since everything appears to mainly be towards the night hours, I would also put thermal into the realm of possible issues.
 
When you say conduit, that would also lead me to consider if the cable was damaged while pulling in the conduit, even if it's just a stub.

I will get counts, draws.

I'm leaning away from thermal because there is no temperature change in the house. Stays at 71 year round. Conditioned encapsulated crawl. Attic never gets more than about 75 degrees even on the hottest humid windless days.

I ran all the wire myself and was extra careful to put gentle bends where it exited a stub.

BUT NO ONE IS PERFECT. So my fear is It's now all behind drywall where it's not in conduit except crawl and attic. 2story most of the first floor devices (co/smokes, propane,a few glass breaks, door contacts) run between the floors.

Comm bus is all within Main enclosure except cat5e that runs through a conduit run to second floor remote panel.

I will separate the buss and see if it makes a difference.

I am using a UPB pulseworx to control lighting on first floor(2 sub panels) but I have my rack mount UPS set at the highest possible sensitivity for dirty power/high low voltage, and it's only tripped three times in a year. All during bad storms. I'll pull the Pulseworx off for a few days and see how that works maybe there is an issue there?

It seems to happen more than average around the time I make a programming tweak(rules change)

It hasn't reset since the 29th but I'm not holding my breath it can sometimes go a week or two before I get a reset. Most times it's at night and it is ok because we disarm it at the keypad before we leave. Other than it needing to be fixed because there is SOMETHING wrong. Garage door rule being ignored and beeping at night just make it painful. It would have gotten lost in a log file if it weren't for them highlighting it.

Appreciate the help I'm banging my head against a wall on this one.

 

[Del91574]

Spray foam has caused issues with cabling a bunch of times on installs I've been on. I'm still waiting for the NEC to specifically address it when it comes to cable, derating and what some of the solvents actually do to the cables. Actually it's somewhat frightening to see. Hard to say if it's solvent issues or improper installation.

 

[Bubba579]

I'm out of town for training this week, so far no resets.

I'm thinking the issue may be in the panel thermally. It didn't click originally BUT that room actually has a 5 degree swing because we have heatpump water heater and all the VMS server/network/AV equipment is in the room so at night it warms up from about 70 to 75, not being there the temp has stayed around 75(I have a elk temp sensor in there because of the network rack.

If there aren't any resets till I get back I'm going to check the couple hundred connections in there.

 

[Charliefedz]

This system does look very sweet. I have noticed that the ethernet add-on is not available yet.

The ELK site mentions that it was due for release Q3 of last year. Does anyone have anymore info on the status of this piece?

Thanks.
Brian.

 

[hgupta1]

I'm out of town for training this week, so far no resets.

I'm thinking the issue may be in the panel thermally. It didn't click originally BUT that room actually has a 5 degree swing because we have heatpump water heater and all the VMS server/network/AV equipment is in the room so at night it warms up from about 70 to 75, not being there the temp has stayed around 75(I have a elk temp sensor in there because of the network rack.

If there aren't any resets till I get back I'm going to check the couple hundred connections in there.

 
Were you ever able to figure out where the issue is?  Mine just started rebooting recently and I am afraid I am going to have to go through the same process of trying to diagnose it.