Thinking about cameras
- Thread starter Linwood
- Start date
pete_c
Guru
Yeah that whole CCTV stuff in the clouds will be a money maker for any company.
Today folks are voyeurs (note use of word is related to automation) to their own automation that they can see on their cell phones to make sure its working. Well they also like the fact that they can remote control their automation and sleep with their phones.
It's a win win and feeds the frenzy.
When my wife an I go out for breakfast, lunch or dinner lately most of the folks in the restaurants (and family's) are just playing with their phones or tablets nose down these days. They don't even converse with themselves. Well they do still use the menu to request food.
Today folks are voyeurs (note use of word is related to automation) to their own automation that they can see on their cell phones to make sure its working. Well they also like the fact that they can remote control their automation and sleep with their phones.
It's a win win and feeds the frenzy.
When my wife an I go out for breakfast, lunch or dinner lately most of the folks in the restaurants (and family's) are just playing with their phones or tablets nose down these days. They don't even converse with themselves. Well they do still use the menu to request food.
Just an update.
I got a Hikvision DC-2CD2332-I, and have spent days now trying different software, including: Blue Iris, Zoneminder, Sighthound, Xeoma, and Axxonnet. Others seemed either expensive (or were only available by asking for a sales call and quotation which to me said "very expensive and probably won't sell to DIY").
So far all have had some serious shortcomings, but I'm narrowing it down. I think Zoneminder is practical despite some real issues, mostly because it's easily hacked and changed (I managed to build from source last evening and get it running). Xeoma is the most interesting, it seems a new(ish) product with small following, but I really like many of its features, especially the graphical workflow handling of camera setups (you just hang a functional node off the camera image, e.g. you might hang a schedule node, then following it a motion detector, then following it an archive; then you could hang a different schedule node, no motion detector, and a save-to-file to pull off stills or video on a recording basis independent of motion). I think Blue Iris is my fallback -- it does most things I want, I just don't like the "needs windows" and "is both client and server combined", but it works and does what I need.
If anyone's interested when I finish this (i.e. get tired of trying software and pick something) I'll write up a summary.
(This might seem to be, but of course it isn't, an excuse to delay getting up in the hot attic and running wires to start mounting cameras).
I got a Hikvision DC-2CD2332-I, and have spent days now trying different software, including: Blue Iris, Zoneminder, Sighthound, Xeoma, and Axxonnet. Others seemed either expensive (or were only available by asking for a sales call and quotation which to me said "very expensive and probably won't sell to DIY").
So far all have had some serious shortcomings, but I'm narrowing it down. I think Zoneminder is practical despite some real issues, mostly because it's easily hacked and changed (I managed to build from source last evening and get it running). Xeoma is the most interesting, it seems a new(ish) product with small following, but I really like many of its features, especially the graphical workflow handling of camera setups (you just hang a functional node off the camera image, e.g. you might hang a schedule node, then following it a motion detector, then following it an archive; then you could hang a different schedule node, no motion detector, and a save-to-file to pull off stills or video on a recording basis independent of motion). I think Blue Iris is my fallback -- it does most things I want, I just don't like the "needs windows" and "is both client and server combined", but it works and does what I need.
If anyone's interested when I finish this (i.e. get tired of trying software and pick something) I'll write up a summary.
(This might seem to be, but of course it isn't, an excuse to delay getting up in the hot attic and running wires to start mounting cameras).
drvnbysound
Senior Member
BlueIris FTW!
Oddly, I setup BI systems for 3 other people before I did my own... since having my own setup for about 2 months now, I think I have only RDP'd into my server once. I pretty much completely access the system via phone app.
Oddly, I setup BI systems for 3 other people before I did my own... since having my own setup for about 2 months now, I think I have only RDP'd into my server once. I pretty much completely access the system via phone app.
Thanks, drvnbysound. I can't find anything really wrong with BlueIris per se.
I live on Windows, but doesn't mean I like it. I have to buy a Pro license for RDP to work (and probably would as I don't like things like Team Viewer as much). And I really don't like the newer windows issue with RDP assuming a tiny screen size if no screen is plugged in (and I did not plan to have a screen plugged in). Why it can't be like server I don't know.
An intriguing aspect of Xeoma is they completely separate the client and server component, and allow the client to run on windows, linux or android! Same client, so you can do anything you want including changing setup. The bad news is it's the same client and seems optimized for high bandwidth. There is a mediocre web interface though. Another thing I really liked about it besides the itnerface is that it is smart about multiple URL's for the same camera. For example, it grabs stills every second for the montage view to reduce processing/bandwidth but as soon as you switch to full screen for that camera it switches back to the video feed.
Blue Iris' android client costs money, haven't tried it yet. OK, it's not MUCH money, but really, why a free trial on one and not the other?! I have looked at the photos.
I need to pin this down soon.
I live on Windows, but doesn't mean I like it. I have to buy a Pro license for RDP to work (and probably would as I don't like things like Team Viewer as much). And I really don't like the newer windows issue with RDP assuming a tiny screen size if no screen is plugged in (and I did not plan to have a screen plugged in). Why it can't be like server I don't know.
An intriguing aspect of Xeoma is they completely separate the client and server component, and allow the client to run on windows, linux or android! Same client, so you can do anything you want including changing setup. The bad news is it's the same client and seems optimized for high bandwidth. There is a mediocre web interface though. Another thing I really liked about it besides the itnerface is that it is smart about multiple URL's for the same camera. For example, it grabs stills every second for the montage view to reduce processing/bandwidth but as soon as you switch to full screen for that camera it switches back to the video feed.
Blue Iris' android client costs money, haven't tried it yet. OK, it's not MUCH money, but really, why a free trial on one and not the other?! I have looked at the photos.
I need to pin this down soon.
A little lost in the context there, but I can't find any way to actually buy the product other than calling a partner or inside sales, and I ignored all those as not suitable to a DIY'er. I did find a GSA price list showing $250 per camera, which if that's the government price I can't imagine I can afford it!
You'd need to build the machine but I have seen the software quite often on Ebay. All you need is the disk and meet the hardware requirements.
Licensing was not enforced until the latest build, so you'd be able to add up to what the architecture or components support (either up to 150 cams, expandable with storage or 2K total cams).
The analytics and functionality is excellent.
Barring that, Milestone offers a very nice freeware/trial software.
Licensing was not enforced until the latest build, so you'd be able to add up to what the architecture or components support (either up to 150 cams, expandable with storage or 2K total cams).
The analytics and functionality is excellent.
Barring that, Milestone offers a very nice freeware/trial software.
I don't think I want to go down a dead end path with not being able to upgrade.
Interesting you mentioned Milestone, their Project X and related is one I had on my list that I have not tried. The non-free level looked pretty pricey (their web site didn't list prices, but e.g. B&H shows about $50 per camera; I am expecting 6-8).
The "Go" product might be fine though, though it is hard to tell online what is not present (I found this: http://www.milestonesys.com/our-products/xprotect-software-suite/#basic if anyone is looking).
But worth a try. Thanks.
Interesting you mentioned Milestone, their Project X and related is one I had on my list that I have not tried. The non-free level looked pretty pricey (their web site didn't list prices, but e.g. B&H shows about $50 per camera; I am expecting 6-8).
The "Go" product might be fine though, though it is hard to tell online what is not present (I found this: http://www.milestonesys.com/our-products/xprotect-software-suite/#basic if anyone is looking).
But worth a try. Thanks.
drvnbysound
Senior Member
Linwood said:
What limitations are you referring to? Are they related only to W8 and newer?
I am running W7 Pro on my BI machine, have no monitor plugged in, and have no RDP issues; I get full 1080p (native monitor resolution) via RDP.
I need to experiment, but this is what I have been told: on Windows 8 (not sure about 7) but not on Windows servers (at least recent ones), the RDP server sets a default resolution equal to the monitor plugged in, and if none is plugged in, uses a tiny monitor default (VGA?).drvnbysound said:
There may be something to it, because there are a few sites online where you can buy fake monitor plugs, i.e. just a plug that when plugged in makes it appear as though you have a high-res monitor connected (and yes, this might be a good workaround if this is true).
In at least one place I read you can also fool it by having it plugged in when you boot, then unplug and leave it running. Not graceful of course if there are power failures, or monthly security updates (if you do).
I have not tested it, I'll give it a try tomorrow.
DELInstallations said:
I downloaded and did a bit of experimentation with Xprotect Go, the few version. It looked promising, but it has a killer restriction of 5 days of storage, period. Worse than the AxxonNext limit of 1TB, at least there you can fiddle with your frame rates or other criteria to live within it.
I may come back to it at some point if I decide I'm unhappy with others, but I suspect I'd be needing to by those fairly pricey licenses for the commercial product.
drvnbysound
Senior Member
Linwood said:
I was looking at Milestone, among others, when I started looking for an applicable NVR software to convert to when I upgraded from analog cameras. It was the limitations above that had me remove the Xprotect Go from my running... and the cost that ruled out almost everything else. I just couldn't justify paying $100+ per camera license...
There's ways around the "5 days" item and it's very simple if you know enough about DB management and machines.
As far as Nextiva, it's a very robust platform and based off SQL and the clients are .NET. Can't get much more straight forward than that. You can either use the supported camera drivers that come with it, which read as a who's who in the industry or use ONIV or generic drivers. It's as open a platform as you can get that performs, but it's server/client architecture.
As far as Nextiva, it's a very robust platform and based off SQL and the clients are .NET. Can't get much more straight forward than that. You can either use the supported camera drivers that come with it, which read as a who's who in the industry or use ONIV or generic drivers. It's as open a platform as you can get that performs, but it's server/client architecture.
