UPB Automation Programming

[gacevich]

i have been considering the addition of lighting control to my home and finally took the plunge. got one light switch from each mfgr and a couple of PIRs from AO as i am not sure which brand to equip the whole house with. installed the switches and have a PIR hanging on the wall. after a day of playing around and seeing how the system works i am both encouraged and daunted at the same time. i am encouraged because (as a DIYer) i was able to install all three switches, a PIR, get the M1 to see and control the equipment and successfully program a few links in UPStart. the basic building blocks are there and while i haven't yet brought cqc into the picture i am encouraged that this project should be within my skill set.

this is the part where i have become daunted. set up some links in UPStart, set up some rules in ELKRP and cqc is sitting on the sidelines waiting to get into the game. where should i put all my "scene" and motion sensing logic: UPStart, M1 or CQC? i see benefits for each but before i bang my head against the wall for hours (days?) programming and reprogramming to get the system so the family likes it, i thought i would throw it out to the forum and see what other people are doing. a search of CT returned many posts on UPB equipment, but very little on how to program. maybe the experience of other would result in a few less bruises on my forehead. Pointing me in the direction of resource on the web wouldn't hurt either.

just to through some meat on the bone, here are few items that i want to address with programming:

• if i use motion sensing to turn on/off a light and a user manually operates that switch, how do u override motion sensing due to the actions of a user?
• if u link several light switches together because 95 times out of a hundred they are always used together, how to account for the other 5%? maybe its just back to old-fashioned switch operation?
• motion sensing at night/bedtime: maybe this is not a programming issue, but how do u have motion sensing still work at night for "nite lites" but not be tripped by the act of you walking from the light switch to the bed?
• can an ELK rule active a switch such that it actives a UPB link?
• should "scenes" be in UPStart, M1, CQC?

hopefully this generates some discusson. thanks.

edit: btw, what's the best way to connect a UPStart to the UPB PIM. right now my pim resides in my swb. works great for communicating with my M1. however, when i want to run UPStart, i do the programming at my desktop. save the file to the network. get the laptop, open the file from the network then sit in a confined space next to the swb with the laptop balanced on my lap so that the db9 connection can reach to the upb pim. oh, how nice it would be to sit at my desktop and remote into the pim using the M1XSP and communicate via upstart. can this be done?

 

[MikeB]

I would always program everything in at the lowest level to increase reliability and performance. If the scene/action you want to program is possible within the devices themselves and UPStart, I would program them that way. If you want to create some events that integrate motion or something else on the Elk, I would do it within the Elk. If you need to integrate something into your system from CQC, only then would I create the action within CQC.

edit: btw, what's the best way to connect a UPStart to the UPB PIM. right now my pim resides in my swb. works great for communicating with my M1. however, when i want to run UPStart, i do the programming at my desktop. save the file to the network. get the laptop, open the file from the network then sit in a confined space next to the swb with the laptop balanced on my lap so that the db9 connection can reach to the upb pim. oh, how nice it would be to sit at my desktop and remote into the pim using the M1XSP and communicate via upstart. can this be done

How about just purchasing another PIM? Might be nice to have another one on hand anyway. If you want to go cheap, check the FOR SALE section for used PIMs. I think I even have one for sale on there somewhere.

 

[fcwilt]

I second that suggestion: get a second PIM. However there may be signal strength differences between the two locations which might, although not likely, cause problems. Another issue that having a second PIM solved for me was having to switch the PIM between the mode the UPstart needs the PIM to be in and the mode needed by my home automation controller. Granted this is not a big issue but it was a minor annoyance.

 

[gacevich]

I second that suggestion: get a second PIM. However there may be signal strength differences between the two locations which might, although not likely, cause problems. Another issue that having a second PIM solved for me was having to switch the PIM between the mode the UPstart needs the PIM to be in and the mode needed by my home automation controller. Granted this is not a big issue but it was a minor annoyance.

well...as is often the case, spending more $$$ can solve the issue. i'll order another PIM of the same make and model to make like easier.

thanks for the second PIM suggestion.

as for mikeb's comment, is this how others are programming their lighting...using variouse places for the logic?

 

[Michael McSharry]

I second that suggestion: get a second PIM. However there may be signal strength differences between the two locations which might, although not likely, cause problems. Another issue that having a second PIM solved for me was having to switch the PIM between the mode the UPstart needs the PIM to be in and the mode needed by my home automation controller. Granted this is not a big issue but it was a minor annoyance.

well...as is often the case, spending more $$$ can solve the issue. i'll order another PIM of the same make and model to make like easier.

thanks for the second PIM suggestion.

as for mikeb's comment, is this how others are programming their lighting...using variouse places for the logic?

It is the typical tradeoff between reliabiltiy vs. ease of maintenance. Things that are mission critical need to be done in a manner that yields the highest reliabilty and that will normally be at the lowest level in the control hierarchy. I do not consider my lighting that important in the scheme of things and my logic resides at the highest level which in my case is the xAP connector managing the UPB interface.

 

[Steve]

Yea, having a second CIM really helps alot. I've got the one on the Elk that doesn't get touched, then I have a second on my HA Server. The server has UpStart on it and I just RDP into it from wherever I am (usually my regular office pc). I can easily sit at my desk and do anything I need, from testing to reprogramming.

As for the control, the problem with direct/low level link control is that UPB devices don't report status upon receiving links. So, If you have a CQC interface that displays your lighting and you initiate a 'scene' by sending and receiving links directs within the switches, then your CQC interface will be out of sync. What I do is just use the Elk for control. So I would send out a link and have the M1 see it and in turn issue the appropriate commands. Doing it that way keeps the Elk and CQC in sync. There are other ways as well, but I feel the M1 is pretty rock solid and there is really not much of a delay unless you are controlling many lights. Of course its all relative and there are several ways of doing it. Just try the various methods out and pick what suits you. Things like emergency all on/blink/off, etc can still be programmed direct.

 

[gacevich]

one of the issues i am struggling to program is manual override. for example, nite lite comes on at 10% but i closed the door and can now go to 100%. however, its still "nite time" and the pir senses motion again and turns the light back down to 10%. my thought is that if i manually turn on the light at 100% it should stay at 100% either i turn off the light manually or XX minutes expire since last movement and the elk turns the light off. until one of these two conditions occur it should not re-adjust the lights. how might i do this.

as i tweak the demo system, i am thinking that keeping "UPB Links" to double taps, single light operations to single taps and motion sensing via pirs/elk is the way to go.

 

[fcwilt]

Well my home automation system is HomeLogic. My security system is an ELK M1 controlled by the HomeLogic system. My lighting is all UPB. I use UPstart to configure the UPB devices and links but the control of the lighting system as a whole is handled by the HomeLogic system.

As to the problem with your night light setup: With HomeLogic I would be able to set a event (which is somewhat like a ELK M1 rule) where if the motion sensor triggered and the light was OFF then the light would be set to 10%. If the light was NOT OFF then the level of the light would not be changed. You still would have to deal with the situation when you turn off the light and the motion sensor is triggered and then turns the light back on at 10%. Perhaps a time delay could be triggered when the light level is changed manually and any motion during this time would be ignored.

 

[gacevich]

trying to use "Outputs" to toggle for different states/conditions. programming an Output to turn on or off in rules seems straight forward. what i can't figure out is how to tell if an output is actually on or off. how can i view the state of an output? additionally, how can i force on/off an output as i test programming? thanks.

 

[Steve]

Do you have an ethernet expander? If so the easiest way is to open the virtual keypad by going to the XEP's ip address in your browser. When the passcode screen comes up, enter a valid user passcode from your system. Then you can click on the Output screen to view and control the outputs.

 

[fcwilt]

trying to use "Outputs" to toggle for different states/conditions. programming an Output to turn on or off in rules seems straight forward. what i can't figure out is how to tell if an output is actually on or off. how can i view the state of an output? additionally, how can i force on/off an output as i test programming? thanks.

Well in a ELK Rule you can test for output state changes. If you want to change an output manually for testing you could program one of your keypad Fx keys to toggle or set output state. As far as viewing the state you can use one of your keypad Fx key LEDs.

 

[Steve]

True, but if you are going the simple/keypad route you could always just go into the Automation > Outputs screen and scroll up/down thru the outputs. It will also show you the state there as well.

 

[gacevich]

Do you have an ethernet expander? If so the easiest way is to open the virtual keypad by going to the XEP's ip address in your browser. When the passcode screen comes up, enter a valid user passcode from your system. Then you can click on the Output screen to view and control the outputs.

yes i have an ethernet expander. i'll have to make use of this. i like it better than having to go to a keypad. its easier to reach the laptop right in front of me.

right now i have a rule setup that if motion is sensed it turns on the vanity light for x minutes and y seconds. if i set the timer to 0 min and 10 secs everything seems to work fine...light comes on when i move then turns off 10 seconds later. fine for testing but i don't want the light to go out every 10 seconds unless i (or the wife...yikes) has to move every 10 seconds. so i lengthened the time to 15 mins 0 seconds. light comes on fine but does not go off even after 30 minutes. my suspicion from reading other threads is that the pir is sensing false motion. what testing can i do to figure out what is tripping the pir? the pir in use is a visonic next k9-85. i know that neither a person nor the dog is tripping the pir. might going to a dual technology pir help prevent false detections?

 

[Steve]

A dual tech may help depending on what is tripping it. First thing you need to do is make sure it is being tripped and if so, why. You can do lots of things to verify the zone is being tripped. Send an email, send text to keypad, chime, etc whatever indication you would like to see that the zone trips while not being anywhere in the area of it. You may want to watch from nearby to see if you can see anything that may be tripping it - bright sun, blind/curtains moving when a/c comes on, ceiling fan, etc. Once you know for sure, you can decide what the remediation steps would be.

You can also ignore it so the light only goes on a single 30 min cycle. Instead of using RESTART IF RUNNING when setting timer, don't use it. Make your rules like:

1. On motion, Turn Output x on for 30 min (no restart) - i'm pretty sure if the output is already on this just then gets ignored
2. Whenever Output x turns on, turn light on
3. Whenever Output x turns off, turn light off

You would still have the light turn on by mistake on false detection but it will only come on for 30 minutes and then have to see another motion after its off. I know that is not really ideal at all but may at least keep light from burning all the time.

 

[LightenUP]

The timer from Digital AV new can possibly accomodate your needs with triggers. Very cost effective.