Whole Home Audio - Technologies

[Neurorad]

jautor has a tip on external amps to power zones 7&8, can't recall the brand/model
 
It's pretty cheap to add amps for those extra zones.  You probably won't need to amplify the family room, as you'll likely run line-level to that room's AVR, as a source.
 
If you have the space, I think any old AVR could be used to power a zone.  My Nuvo GC is fine for my deck (I don't like to bother the neighbors), but others use a more powerful, external amp for open outdoor spaces.

 

[drvnbysound]

jautor has a tip on external amps to power zones 7&8, can't recall the brand/model
 
It's pretty cheap to add amps for those extra zones.  You probably won't need to amplify the family room, as you'll likely run line-level to that room's AVR, as a source.
 
If you have the space, I think any old AVR could be used to power a zone.  My Nuvo GC is fine for my deck (I don't like to bother the neighbors), but others use a more powerful, external amp for open outdoor spaces.

 
My family room / living room has 5.1 that will be driven from my AVR. The other 8 zones that I was speaking of, were just for the whole-home audio, and did not include the living room, as I view them as separate systems for the most part.
 
I'll reach out to jautor and see if I can get that information. The 7&8 zones aren't a hard requirement for me. Much more of a nice-to-have, and I just figured I may as well add them to the system while I'm moving other wiring anyway.

 

[Neurorad]

I think this is the one, the AudioSource AMP-100, 60W/channel, that jautor mentioned today in this thread:  http://www.avsforum.com/t/1513456/multi-zone-multi-source-newbie-help

 

[pete_c]

Here I still utilize the AudioSource AMP-100 mixed in with the Russound amps. 
 
Originally purchased it for the TTS sound going to a speaker switcher which was both serially and X10 controlled called the AB8SS driving autonmous TTS from the Homeseer box.
 
Its been a while (7-8 years) and the amp is functioning well and the price was right.

 

[signal15]

You could look at this also:
http://www.atonhome.com/ah66t.html
 
Bottom line is, all of these other things are going to cost you more than that Monoprice system.  I always have my phone on me, so I bought a Sonos Connect and plugged it into one of the inputs.  I don't need, nor really want, keypad metadata.  
 
Keep in mind that the original description of the Monoprice system said 6x6, 12x12, or 18x18.  They just changed it because it turns out you can only use 6 inputs.  I was planning on getting the TV's in each room connected to it, but I'm either going to have to forego that option or get some sort of additional audio matrix to make that work.
 
In any case, it's a good system.  I wish they hadn't made that original mistake with the description or I may have continued researching products.  But from what I can find, nothing can touch the price/feature/performance of this monoprice system.
 
You say you'll only have 8 zones.  But what about deck, patio, garage, front steps, workshop, or whatever else you may have?  I thought I'd have a couple extra zones also, but I have a guest room, a garage, a patio, and a front sitting area outside that I'd like to put speakers in.  This is going to burn up the rest of my zones.

 

[drvnbysound]

I think this is the one, the AudioSource AMP-100, 60W/channel, that jautor mentioned today in this thread:  http://www.avsforum.com/t/1513456/multi-zone-multi-source-newbie-help

Here I still utilize the AudioSource AMP-100 mixed in with the Russound amps. 
 
Originally purchased it for the TTS sound going to a speaker switcher which was both serially and X10 controlled called the AB8SS driving autonmous TTS from the Homeseer box.
 
Its been a while (7-8 years) and the amp is functioning well and the price was right.

With the AudioSource AMP-100, is it possible to control volume of these zones without a keypad?

I was in my attic today moving some of my whole-home wiring to a central closet, and I'm really considering this more. However, I have 2 zones (front and back porch) that I won't wire a keypad for. Ideally, these are two zones that I'd use the least, but would like to control source and volume from my phone.

 

[drvnbysound]

You could look at this also:
http://www.atonhome.com/ah66t.html
 
Bottom line is, all of these other things are going to cost you more than that Monoprice system.  I always have my phone on me, so I bought a Sonos Connect and plugged it into one of the inputs.  I don't need, nor really want, keypad metadata.  
 
Keep in mind that the original description of the Monoprice system said 6x6, 12x12, or 18x18.  They just changed it because it turns out you can only use 6 inputs.  I was planning on getting the TV's in each room connected to it, but I'm either going to have to forego that option or get some sort of additional audio matrix to make that work.
 
In any case, it's a good system.  I wish they hadn't made that original mistake with the description or I may have continued researching products.  But from what I can find, nothing can touch the price/feature/performance of this monoprice system.
 
You say you'll only have 8 zones.  But what about deck, patio, garage, front steps, workshop, or whatever else you may have?  I thought I'd have a couple extra zones also, but I have a guest room, a garage, a patio, and a front sitting area outside that I'd like to put speakers in.  This is going to burn up the rest of my zones.

Sure. I too have my phone on me the majority of the time, but not always. I have a speaker in my master bathroom that my wife and I both use fairly often. The majority of the time I go in there and use the speaker, I don't have my phone on me. The kitchen is another zone that has a speaker, but I'd use it much more often if there was a physical keypad available. I don't want to go loading an app to make a music selection, particularly while in the middle of cooking dinner, when I could hit a single button on a keypad to activate the zone. It's really a convenience thing.

I can't possibly see having more than 8 zones. Here's why:
1) Kitchen
2) Master Bedroom
3) Master Bathroom
4) Garage
5) Back Porch
6) Front Porch
7) Bedroom #2
8) Bedroom #3

The only rooms in my house that leaves out is our living room which is wired for 5.1, and the dining room which is adjacent and open to both the kitchen and the living room. The only other possibility would be my detached workshop, which I'm planning to wire to its own source(s) in the workshop itself (via an older AVR).

 

[pete_c]

With the AudioSource AMP-100, is it possible to control volume of these zones without a keypad?

 
No.  I am using software source volume control with the AudioSource AMP-100's.  Mine is a few years old now.  The speaker outputs go to an AB8SS which is managed by Homeseer.  The second source port on the AudioSource amp switches on via a paging type audio sensing thing.  The AB8SS was a "speaker switcher" with RS-232 and X10 control of on/off of 8 pairs of speakers.
 
Recently (about 3 years ago) did install one in a friends dental office; its still working just fine.  Concurrently installed a Russound system with keypads in another dental office and this one too is functioning fine.  I did utilize the Cat5e baluns for two audio sources from the main wiring closet to the front reception desk area (over 100 feet or so) with no degradation of the sound that I could tell.
 
Here recently did add a zone on the deck using outdoor Russound speakers and other zone in the garage doing similar.  The main floor and 2nd floor hallways are also sound zones (pairs of speakers in each), kitchen and comm closet area.  There are subzones (addition MM receivers) in bedrooms, home office and family room.  I remote the Russound stuff with Russound Keypads, HAI Omnitouch and Homeseer (touch and web gui).  I am using a serial "server" on the RS-232 output of the Russound zoned amps and it works well.
 
I did luck out in the early 2000's before our home move to current home purchased in wall speakers in bulk by the case such that all of them are identical today.

 

[drvnbysound]

Hmm. Alright, that may get into more than I want to deal with then. I already have the first (6) zones wired, and was only looking to add zones 7 & 8 when I saw that some of the systems were capable of 8 zones; I'd have to go back and wire these in. Not a big deal to not have them for BRs 2 & 3; they would be used rarely anyway.

 

[pete_c]

BTW used that white PVC jacketed 16/2 and 16/4 for my speaker cabling.  Easy to work with stuff.  Initially did utilize grey Monster cable; same gauge but very thin grey cover and difficult to work with.
 
Bedrooms #3 and #4 are not really used much these days.  One bedroom is a home office (well now two are).  Master bedroom is further subdivided into two sub zones with in wall speakers in the master bathroom and master bedroom.  In wall controller keypads are in the hallway space between the master bedroom and the master bathroom.  Source sound is Russound or in room MM receiver.  Here in the midwest the 2nd floor was easy because of the large attic space to work in.  One bedroom networking stuff is in three sections; one by TV, next to one desk and in a "study" nook off the main bedroom with another desk.  The in wall speakers are mounted on the largest spaced wall.  The controller keypads are in a short hallway after the main door leading to the bedroom. (easy to wire cuz of the attic at the time).
 
Subzone in the garage is using these little mini stereo amps with one touchscreen which has x-windows and is running Squeezebox player or XBMC for audio only.  The switching of speakers from the whole house audio to subzone is just a manual AB in wall (Russound) switch adjacent to a Russound KPL keypad. The cabling for the speakers were a PITA to run as they are on an insulated wall in the garage.  The run goes to the basement to the com section (audio amps section).  I did add a second set smaller set of speakers mounted under the "kitchen" style garage cabinets over the workbench.  These are mini Sony speaker bars with multiple tiny speakers in them.  They sound only OK; but were really cheap.
 
I also installed a mini in a single duplex box POE combo wireless AP/firewall/switch near the workbench of the garage.  Its made for hotels and very nicely built and tiny; the size of the single duplex box.  Concurrent with all of this I built a slop sink into one workbench of the garage using a standard commercial kitchen mini slop slink.  It was a learning sweating copper learning experience.  The sink does have a built in stainless steel backsplash and I customized the counter some to fit it.
 
I did also add two circuits to the main garage stuff separating out the garage door openers, lighting and outlets. (heat and air compressor on on separate breakers).
 
If you run or have run your speaker wires and catXX to the rooms / areas with sound; you've done most of it.  The amplifier and speaker stuff can be added anytime afterwards.

 

[drvnbysound]

Well, all of my zones were originally wired without category cable to the keypads (the zones that have them). However, as I move the wiring from the main wall of the living room (where they used to be tied into a speaker selector) to a central closet, I'm also pulling Cat5E to each keypad.
 
I'm sure I won't be buying a system next week, but I'm certainly planning and preparing to add one...
 
And yes, all of my speaker wiring is 16/2 or 16/4 with the PVC jacket.

 

[pete_c]

Yup; here didn't do the Russound stuff until 5 years later. 
 
I started initially using the Leviton Digital Chopin volume controls.  This did utilize cat5e cables.
 
All of the speakers are wired identically using the 16/2 left and right speaker wires to the wall box; where initially they were just connected to the 16/4's and went back down to the com closet.
 
Note that I am not knowing that this was the "right" way to do this and in fact there was much "trial and error" along the way and it does span some 10 years of pulling cable.  Some of these little projects took some time and others were really fast.  IE: living room cabling was easy via the basement where as garage was more difficult because the garage is attached but separte from the house.  The electrical for the garage comes into the garage from three places. One place is the attic down an outside wall (brick) then to the center of the garage where the lighting is at.  

 

[standon]

I have a C series kit with all 8 zones in use, and maybe 8 subzones.  Zones 1-6 are put into our most frequently used zones, with keypads.  Then zone 7 is the outdoor pool zone, zone 8 is all other zones.  I use Panja PLB-AMP8 4 zone amplifiers from eBay (about $150 shipped each off of eBay).  Additionally, for speaker controllers, I use the Elan VSE-100's that are controlled by IR.  Right now, I only have the pool zone separated out. Using an IR remote, I blast a signal to the speaker controller which is located in the basement with my other equipment) and it turns the zone on/off and changes the volume using the blaster from my USB-UIRT.  I take the IR signals from the other zone and combine them all, so if any sends the power on IR signal, it turns on the Russound zone 8 as well.  With this setup, I run a 16/4 speaker wire and a cat5 to each keypad location, then from the keypad location 2x 14/2 to each speaker. As of right now, I only use the included Elan IR remote for control, but my plan is to use the IR receiver in each keypad for other automation tasks.  
 
It works fairly well and it's definitely less than buying another amp to expand 8 audio zones.

 

[bucko]

Today I just ordered a MAP-1200HD and speakers for my HA. I will be reporting on it later but it looks like a good way to go for multi zone audio.

 

[pete_c]

Yup; relating to the DIY person I think that the MAP-1200HD provides a nice solution for the price.
 
Bucko, curious if you are looking for Elk or MiCasa integration (or none?)?
 
Here I utilized Russound purchased used.  I learned about it such that it was totally done in a DIY fashion.
 
Most of the higher end legacy systems and integration were always proprietary and typically only installed by dealers with no real support to the DIY person.
 
What other choices (whole house zoned audio) are out there today relating to a DIY installation of a zoned audio system?
 
Many folks are utilizing Sonos today.  Other folks are just tapping into their MM receivers and turning them into multizone audio systems.