X-10 Hell

jay

Active Member
Background.
HomeSeer PC is in barn, about 150 wire-feet from house. X-10 Pro amp/repeater is in basement of house. I have (3) X-10 outdoor motion sensors which are notorious for sending spurious signals. I use them to switch cameras. I also have an outside GFI* which supervises lighting and water feature circuits.

Problem.
Everything was working fine until last week.
Palm pad stopped working on House Code P. Then the problem spread to some unit codes on D. I was still able to operate the lights and water features through client PCs (Xlobby) and directly from the HS server. I checked the HS log and saw nothing to indicate motion sensor flooding. So, I thought this was a phase bridging issue after I saw no traffic on the coupler/repeater (the LED was dark) and ordered a new one from AO.
No joy. In fact, the new coupler/repeater started flashing like mad after I tried a bunch of button presses on a palm pad. (What does the LED signify? Collisions? Traffic?) Now there is no palm pad nor client control in the house. Even the HS server has no effect.

Remediation tries.
I power-cycled the coupler/repeater. Nada. Then I went to the barn and shut down the HS PC and pulled out the TI 103 X-10 interface and went back to the house basement. Coupler/repeater was still flashing. I killed power to 2 of the 3 motion sensors. No joy. BTW, one of those motion sensor's attached floodlights had locked on. But that wasn't it. It's raining and I don't know which breaker controls the 3rd motion sensor. I'll disconnect it at the head end tomorrow.
I enabled every log option HS does on startup and see nothing unusual. There's a file to be written to in one option which tells HS2 to log to hstrace.log. I couldn't find that file.
Up until an hour ago, I could use a palm pad out here in the barn. That functionality is gone now, as well. I just killed the power to the coupler/repeater and see if I could get any control back in the barn at least. Nope.

Next.
When it stops raining tomorrow, I'll disconnect the last motion sensor and kill the outside GFI* in case it may make line noise under certain conditions (?). I have another one inside the barn and held a AM radio next to it but heard nothing. Is that even valid to detect line noise? I discovered that I can find breaks in my Invisible Fence that way.

Anyone?
TIA!
 
There are a few things to check, but the only way to get reliable X-10 communications is to get a signal meter and start looking for signal sucks and noise generators. AO used to have loaners you could use for the cost of shipping.

Read THIS post for additional details. You will also need some signal blocks to isolate the problem items. Make sure you get the appropriate ones for your current loads.

IF you can, try to keep motion detection signals off of your powerline (use a W800 RF receiver via the serial port interface of your HomeSeer computer).

I found the TI103 to be a terrible X-10 power line interface for my home. I purchased it to take the place of a CM11a that went bad. I had lights that would randomly turn on and other X-10 signal issues. I ordered another CM11a and the issues went away.

IMO you have the best coupler/repeater in the X-10 Pro (I've tried the ACT and Leviton and found this to be the best).

What changed in your home recently? Was a TV purchased, a PC added, an appliance moved/added, as you can read in that post I referenced, even a nightlight can cause you problems?

I also found UPS units to be very troublesome.

Anyway, just some ideas to kick around. :blush:
 
Take a deep breath and do a reset....(on yourself). This can be resolved. A couple of thoughts... If you have an Oscilloscope great... connect it to the powerline using an x10 passive coupler (as a bandpass filter) and see what you see in the 120khz range. If not proceed step by step with techniques to eliminate the possibilities.

What has changed? well it could be... New noise coming into your powerline from outside your home, an appliance, low voltage transformerless power supplies, wall wart or pc / laptop powersupply that has NOW started giving off noise in the 120khz range. A bad desktop x10 controller. A failing x10 noise filter that is no longer filtering out what its supposed to or worse sucking the signal (can happen with overloaded filters). A bad coupler (try a passive one in place of the active one you have).

Disconnect virtually everyting or turn on only the breakers that cover the majority of your x10 receivers and transmitters. If nothing comes of that disconnect x10 wired in items and start from scratch building things up to try to find the point of failure. This ground up approach will allow you to start with some level of functionality and then build your layers.

The active coupler you mention should not be going crazy with blinking leds unless they indicate the receipt of x10 signals that cannot be resolved or are constant.

Some other products use or inject signals in the 120hz range, check if any added lately. Check for any grounding issue that might inject noise in the barn.
 
Your 2 responses have a wealth of ideas. I was amazed at the scope of potential signal suckers. I recently helped a friend find a spurious X-10 signal source using his meter and I'll borrow it, if needed.
Yes, yesterday I was wishing I still owned a scope.
The only new item is a 19" LCD TV/monitor right next to the T!103. That's not it.
I'm aware that I should really use RF for the motion sensors but the distance are too great. I'm using the X-10 wired units which have given me trouble in the past. However, I would normally see flooding in the HS2 log. I will disconnect the last one this morning. Since they're only used to switch cameras, I could get a 2-page quad processor and be done with that.
I'll also pull out all of the TM-751 RF tranceivers that I use for palmpads. I do have a CM-11 but the coupler/repeater still goes nutz with the TI103 pulled out.
Going thru the breakers in each building would be a bear but I've made note of the suggestion. I'd rather just power-cycle both buildings at the main and see what happens.

Doesn't it figure? My property is up for sale and an open house is coming up. :blush:

Thanks guys
 
hey Jay, glad to see you are still around! Those transceivers can definitely be trouble, happy to see you figured it out.
 
Glad to hear you found out what the problem was.

Saw this
I found the TI103 to be a terrible X-10 power line interface for my home
and thought it was interesting that you thought that BSR. I have tried the CM11a, USB powerlinc, PSC05 and the TI103. The TI103 by far has been the best for me but girder doesn't support it.
 
Hey Electron :blush: Yup, I'm in here every morning.

I'd go W800 but the PC is in the barn a long way from the house and the house and grounds are where I use the palmpads.
 
I believe the 32bit version also supports the DS10A sensors (which is unknown to many people), which makes this a very interesting device.
 
I believe you're right. I haven't played with the DS10 but I've read about a lot having been done with it.

I'm ordering a AB version from Martin now.

Appreciated!
 
Glad to hear you found out what the problem was.

Saw this
I found the TI103 to be a terrible X-10 power line interface for my home
and thought it was interesting that you thought that BSR. I have tried the CM11a, USB powerlinc, PSC05 and the TI103. The TI103 by far has been the best for me but girder doesn't support it.
I have seen other people use them (TI103) with success, and it surpised me as I had nothing but trouble with random signals when I implemented mine.

Jay, good to hear you got it figured out!
 
I just got my V572AB Whole House Transceiver with PSC05 from Martin.

Wow, what I've been missing!

I mounted the unit in a water-tight enclosure on a deck roughly equidistant from the house and the barn.
I mounted the antenna on top of a pergola.

Other than a Hawkeye-control lamped in an interior bathroom, the coverage is fine and I can walk around the property and control stuff with a palmpad.
I don't want to bother with a ground plane addition to the antenna but I wonder if a wire from its metal mounting bracket to a ground rod would further increase the range?

It comes with all house and unit codes enabled so I just opened the box and mounted it. No computer involved.
 
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