2.2K EOL resistors in the walls, HAI needs 1K.

Hi all, I have an HAI Omni LT with the 11A01 zone expander. I'm retrofitting this system in a home with nice Normally Closed built-in door and window contacts on everything and really want to use them but there doesn't seem to be any way of changing the EOL resistor out without doing damage.
There's also a glass break detector in every room with a window, there was no problem in changing the EOL detector in those though.
I have 23 total zones.

HAI listed a scenario on their "Application Directory" that seemed to address my exact situation (Have 2.2K EOL's in the walls) and what to do. Basically, you're suposed to add a 1.5K resistor on each circuit in series in the box, and tie the other side of the circuit to ground instead of the "-" side of the zone, so I happily ordered a bunch of 1.5K's and tried it.
Same result as tying the circuit down normally. The zone shows trouble. All i can think is that this technique doesn't work with the expander. I suppose i could see if this works on the first 8 zones (before the expander) but it would be kind of a moot point because I have a lot more door/window zones than 8.

Any advice/pointers out there?

-Rich
 
Hi Rich

Im assuming the 2k2 resistors are in series with the window / door contacts...??? so when the door/window is closed then the switch is also closed ???

If so try putting a 2k2 resistor in parallel with the circuit at the panel.....When the door/window is closed you will have 2.. 2k2 resistors in parallel = 1k1 (should be close enough to be seen as ok) ..When the door /window opens the panel should see 2k2 resistance which is double what it should be and hopefully high enough to trigger the zone....worth a try...

HTH
Frank
PS Got any links to the application data ??
 
If so try putting a 2k2 resistor in parallel with the circuit at the panel.....When the door/window is closed you will have 2.. 2k2 resistors in parallel = 1k1 (should be close enough to be seen as ok) ..When the door /window opens the panel should see 2k2 resistance which is double what it should be and hopefully high enough to trigger the zone....worth a try...
Right, the "Application Directory" seems to contradict itself in calling for 1k, then describing a hookup that will get you 3.7k. (But why the connection to earth ground?)

PS Got any links to the application data ??
kb.homeauto.com/redirfile.asp?id=86&SID=
pp.47-48
 
Hi, yep the existing door/window contacts are normally closed w/ an EOL resistor is in series. When the circuit is normal an ohmmeter shows 2.2K, when it's faulted it shows open.

In the application directory it calls for adding a 1.5K resistor (assuming you have 2.2K in the walls as i do)in series to give you 3.7K total. 3.7K is the value of the pull-down resistors built onto the expansion board (and the base board). What I'm guessing is that the idea is the internal resistor for each circuit is bypassed when you tie the negative side to ground and it looks electrically like 1K to the board, but it still shows trouble when i try this.
 
Hi, yep the existing door/window contacts are normally closed w/ an EOL resistor is in series. When the circuit is normal an ohmmeter shows 2.2K, when it's faulted it shows open.
Isn't is "more usual" to have EOL=secure, short=violated, and open=trouble?
 
Hi, yep the existing door/window contacts are normally closed w/ an EOL resistor is in series. When the circuit is normal an ohmmeter shows 2.2K, when it's faulted it shows open.
Isn't is "more usual" to have EOL=secure, short=violated, and open=trouble?

Well i guess it depends on the type of system you have and how you choose to set it up. As i said, since the existing contacts in my walls are all EOL=secure, open=violated, anything else=trouble, that's how I set up the Omni. Apparently you can't pick and choose per-zone how you want it to be, or change what the omni expects to see as far as an EOL value (that would have been nice).
 
Hi Rich

Can you measure the zone input voltage with a 1k resistor installed(normal) ,no resistor installed (open circuit) and with the suggested 3k7 to gnd......

Frank
 
Hi Rich

Can you measure the zone input voltage with a 1k resistor installed(normal) ,no resistor installed (open circuit) and with the suggested 3k7 to gnd......

Frank

Hi Frank, yes. They are as follows, measured across the load:

13.6 V open
6.1 w/ 3.7K normally tied down
6.1 w/ 3.7K tied to earth
2.4 w/ 1K normally tied down

Unless you have an idea, I think the only thing left for me to do is to replace the 3.7K resistors that are soldered onto the board with 2.5K resistors.
That way, the circuits with 2.2K EOL's when normal would look just like 1K.
(difference between 2.2 and 1K is 1.2K, so deduct 1.2 from 3.7= 2.5K.
Sound right?
 
Hi Rich

If the doc is correct in saying that there are 3k7 pulldown resistors and i assume they are connected to the - leg of each zone and the + leg of each zone goes to + power connection maybe via a resistor then i believe that the new 1k5 resistor should be connected to the + supply rather than gnd......Can you confirm that the pulldowns !! are on the - leg of each zone ?? and check to see if any resistors on the + leg....
Thanks
Frank
 
Hi Rich

Please ignore my comment about connecting the 1k5 resistor to +....

If the doc is correct ..that there is a 3k7 pulldown (and assuming its on the - leg) then replacing the resistors to 2k5 should work....But can you please try something before you get your soldering iron out....Make the total resistance between the + leg of a zone to gnd 4k7 and see if that fixes it....this can be done with 2k2 ,1k5 and a 1k if you dont have 4k7 resistors handy...

HTH
Frank
 
Great discussion.

Sorry, noob trying to learn, but are EOLR's normally positioned at a distance from a contact, in an inaccessible location?

Seems any connection could eventually be a point of failure, and should always be accessible. Perhaps that's a relatively new concept and alarm installers' habits die hard?

Have you figured out exactly where the EOLR's are located, or don't you know? Just to be clear, I don't have a clue where they are normally located. :)

I've been looking for some installation references, with no luck. Considered enrolling in an online NBFAA/NTS course, for the literature, but would rather get the course material 'used', as I certainly don't need the certificate. I've tried ebay and a few online used book stores.
 

I've come across that thread many times, thanks BSR. :D

I understand how EOLR's work, thanks to your many helpful threads, just don't really know the specifics of of connections. It's just soldered into the circuit? If I pull out enough contacts, I'll find them? How could the OP's N.C. contacts be inaccessible if this were the case?

I should have went to a local tech school instead of doing graduate work. :)
 
It's just soldered into the circuit?
Either soldered (good technique) or crimped (not so good technique).
If I pull out enough contacts, I'll find them?
That's the theory. Of course if there is not enough slack in the wire to pull the EOL out, you might never find it without removing the trim around the doors/windows.
 
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