richthenoun
Member
I'm also familiar with some devices that have the resistor actualy built inside them, and the only way to change the resistance is to replace the device.
2.2K EOL resistors in the walls, HAI needs 1K.
- Thread starter richthenoun
- Start date
I'm also familiar with some devices that have the resistor actualy built inside them, and the only way to change the resistance is to replace the device.
Sandpiper
Active Member
Rich,
It is not normal to put EOLs "in the walls". Anyone who does this is a complete ......well....let's say amateur. When professionals install EOLs, they will go one of two places. these are either in the panel, which is completely wrong, or at the end-of-line device. This is at the contact. If you dig the contact out, you will find the EOL.
Sometimes digging the contact out is no easy task, but it is do-able. If it is a recessed contact, do the following....
With a razer knife, cut the paint around the contact, then using a screwdriver pry it out. On occasion I have had to drill the contact out. If you have to do this drill a pilot hole then drive in a long drywall screw. Use the screw to pull it out. Grab the wires and gently, gently, gently pull. You may need long needle nose plyers to retrieve the wires with the EOL attached. Of course, the contact will have to be replaced if you drill it.
If the contact is surface mounted, the EOL will be attached to the wires leading into the wall. Dig it out. You may need to patch a bit in this case.
Please post any questions you have and I'll try to help.
felixrosbergen
Senior Member
Righthenoun...
Did you try FrankMC's suggestion? While it should produce 1k when the circuit is contact is closed the questions is whether the HAI can detect the higher resistance (2.2k) and thus lower voltage when the contact is open and respond based on it. Is it possible to adjust the trigger voltages for the normal and fault conditions?
Did you try FrankMC's suggestion? While it should produce 1k when the circuit is contact is closed the questions is whether the HAI can detect the higher resistance (2.2k) and thus lower voltage when the contact is open and respond based on it. Is it possible to adjust the trigger voltages for the normal and fault conditions?
richthenoun
Member
I should clarify. The contacts (and the EOL's) are actually inside the frame of the doors and windows. It's very well done; you can't see them at all when they're closed, and only if you know what to look for when they're open. Digging them out involves removing wood. I did take one out in the utility room; it make a mess of the clean look, and there wasn't enough slack in the contact lead to do much. I couldn't get to the EOL if there was one, and it may well be that these contacts are the type that have internal resistors. That would explain why each and every door/window was wired as its own zone. I'm really kind of surprised that there's no programmable option to allow for different EOL's.
richthenoun
Member
Thanks for the input guys.
Tried it, and the circuit shows as trouble when it's open. Ah well.
I did go ahead and order some 2.5K resistors, gonna try the mod as I mentioned before. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work, and the only downside is that I can only put 2.2K EOL devices on those zones that I switch over. I'll keep you posted, unless someone has a better idea.
Hi Rich
Did you try my second suggestion ???
>If the doc is correct ..that there is a 3k7 pulldown (and assuming its on the - leg) then replacing >the resistors to 2k5 should work....But can you please try something before you get your >soldering iron out....Make the total resistance between the + leg of a zone to gnd 4k7 and see if >that fixes it....this can be done with 2k2 ,1k5 and a 1k if you dont have 4k7 resistors handy...
This is the same as you putting 2k5 resistors on the board.....
Frank
Did you try my second suggestion ???
>If the doc is correct ..that there is a 3k7 pulldown (and assuming its on the - leg) then replacing >the resistors to 2k5 should work....But can you please try something before you get your >soldering iron out....Make the total resistance between the + leg of a zone to gnd 4k7 and see if >that fixes it....this can be done with 2k2 ,1k5 and a 1k if you dont have 4k7 resistors handy...
This is the same as you putting 2k5 resistors on the board.....
Frank
Did you try putting a 2.2K Res. in series with the Neg. wire on the circuit? This would give you approx. 1.1K across the circuit and an open when the zone is faulted. Not the best way to monitor the circuit but it should work and also, 99% of all "pro's" wire with the EOLR's in the panel. Good luck.
CDC
CDC
richthenoun
Member
richthenoun
Member
Well at this point I've tried everything within reason including putting a potentiometer in place of the resistor on the expansion board to see if I could find that sweet spot, but to no avail. The way the LT checks the voltages must be very dependant on the value of the onboard resistors and if they are out of kilter it just doesn't seem to like it. I think I'm just going to have to bite the proverbial bullet and try to replace all the contacts in the doors and windows and repair any damage.
Monk
Active Member
Maybe you will get lucky... with my EOL's (and practically any wire, anywhere) I am careful to leave good slack in the wire... Others are probably as thoughtful.
Have you pulled one loose / out to check yet? It could be a piece of cake.
richthenoun
Member
Yeah I did pull one last night. I pried it out of the frame which made a mess, and the wires didn't really want to come out of the frame with it, but did grudgingly. Couldn't get to the resistor though, so I used a 1" hole saw in the wall right next to where it comes through the door frame, and was able to fish it through. Found that blasted resistor. Also found why the wires were really tight- The installer put a shot of expanding foam in the hole. Quality work.
Fortunately the leader was long enough that I could get to the whole splice and won't have any trouble changing that one out. If all the rest of them are the same I should be in fairly good shape, will just have to repeat the procedure, but won't pull the contact out of the frame this time- No point in doing so and will keep the nice finished look, will just have to "glue" the drywall plug back in with spackle, wait for it to dry, spackle some more then sand and paint. It'll be a lot of work (1 down, 13 to go) but do-able. Thanks for your help everyone.
-Rich
Rich, make sure that the use of EOLR's has not been overwritten in programming. I'm not sure what programming location it is. Maybe 37 or 39? I have run into the same situation and just added the R value to acheive the total circuit R. I can't think of any thing else. But I will be curious to see how you fix it.
CDC
CDC
richthenoun
Member
Hi, As a prof. owner/installer, I can say eol's are a pain in the butt. We are getting ready for a large upgrade, and will have to locate and replace about 2000 eols. Trust me its not fun, It should take a few months. The last upgrade this size took myself and 4 others 4 months. The reason manf. of products don't offer adjustable eol values is they don't want there product removed without some cost, Thus hindering the replacement of there system. In large upgrades, The eol's are a major part of the labor cost(up to 100K) in some cases. My feeling is program them out or put them in the panel. Don't get me wrong, The money is good, But there are many other installs to complete. If there are senstive areas, Use them. At most sites, The guards get an alarm, clear it, and move on without ever checking on it. As for a trouble on a device, they just disable it because they are tired of looking at it. It takes a tech. to find it, reenable and then correct it, If he feels like it, because nobody ever reports it.
Just my thoughts.....
Mike
Just my thoughts.....
Mike