3 Gang Switch?

[malakill]

Hi!
 
I'm a long time lurker here, and I have a question.  But I don't really know how to ask it, since I'm really bad with general electricity.  So well I have at home a couple of UPB Switchs, I've installed them without any "Problem", Now I'll order a Insteon Starter kit, since there's a lot more product with insteon/X10. But that's not the reason I'm writing here.
 
Ok so A member of my family bought a house in Central America (Costa Rica), it's a new construction so the wiring shouldn't be retarded haha, and I'd like to install him a couple of Insteon Switches, but here's my problem, all the lights in the house Use this kind of switch, here's a picture I took last month. So is it even possible to light on 3 different circuit with only 1 Insteon Switch?
 
Thanks guys!

 

[malakill]

Oh well looks like there's no EDIT for me
 
And I can't post link haha 
 
 
Well here's the switch I was talking about : i.imgur.com/BtNHkpX.jpg 
Sorry if We can't do that just delete the link and I'll come back when I'll have more post count haha

 

[apostolakisl]

It appears from a goolging of costa rica that they use the same residential 120v 60hz as in the US.  So you should be able to use Insteon products.  Of course the travel website I came across is not necessarily the expert on cost rican power grid.
 
I am not familiar with the switch you show.  But I am going to take a guess that it is 3 switches in one single gang box.  If indeed it is three switches in one, and all 3 loads are at that location, you would not be able to put an Insteon switch (or any switch besides one pretty much just like that one).  You would have to cut out the drywall and replace that single gang box with a triple gang box.

 

[malakill]

You are correct it's 120V, I woun't have any problem in cutting out a drywall but they use concrete there... haha The whole house is made of concrete, so not possible for me.  And I was wrong in my Post title, you're right it's 3 switches in one Gang box (DIdn't knew what was a gang),  Well Thank your for your help, I really don't know what I'm going to do with these hehe.

 

[BLH]

Do you know if the switch box has a Neutral Power wire in it.
If it just has three switch loops. Where the Line goes into one connection of the switch and the Load is on the other connection. Insteon will not work as it needs Line and Neutral power to work.
 
If there was a Neutral in the switch box. In theory you could use an Insteon Keypadlinc and then some InlineLinc or Micro Modules in the fixtures themselves. Linked back to the Keypadlinc's buttons.

 

[pete_c]

In the late seventies I was using X10. 
 
That said the house was in a place with bad electricity and similiar construction. (actually two houses; new and old). 
 
I did "add" electric / switches and outlets to a "few rooms"  I hired out for the boxes and chases to be installed. 
 
Basically they chiseled little groves in the cement and put in flexible conduit that allowed wires to be run. 
 
They were very good at what they did and very reasonably priced.  (thinking now it was less than $100 for a couple of switches, overhead lighting et al)
 
It was very cheap to do and when they were done they patched up the walls and painted the room such that you couldn't tell where they had put in the chases.
 
Most of the issues I had though were related to the bad electricity and having to replace 2-3 X10 switches every few months.  It was cheaper though to replace them than to fix my electricity.
 
I think though the methodology of construction is still the same today (and related to electric). 
 
Walls first then infrastructure (kind of a wierd methodology - but cheap).

 

[picta]

Perhaps a z-wave switch with a couple of these http://store.homeseer.com/store/Aeon-Labs-Aeotec-DSC26103-ZWUS-Z-Wave-Micro-Switch-P1356.aspx may work

 

[pete_c]

Personally as you are already familiar with UPB and you are talking all concrete wall infrastucture I would suggest using UPB over Z-Wave.
 
Relating to my earlier post about X10 and bad electricity.  It still worked just fine with no filters installed at the time. 
 
That said try Z-Wave and today's Insteon too and compare the three (UPB, Z-Wave and Insteon).
 
Curious how it will work.
 

So is it even possible to light on 3 different circuit with only 1 Insteon Switch?

 
The lights would be on different circuits. 
 
Here recently I have reduced the footprint of multiple switches (3-4 way) by using multiple toggle UPB switches and dual load UPB switches.

 

[znelbok]

No triple gang switch? - you must be kidding.  It sounds like you need a wall of switches just to do a few lights.
 
Not sure if C-bus is available there or not but you can have up to 8 switches on a single plate - most common these days is 6 on a Saturn plate.

 

[malakill]

Wow all those reply!  Thanks guys
 
For the Neutral Wire, I really don't know, but it should, I "spoke", actually tried to speak with the electrician that did the wiring and from what I understood they wire just like our "standards" in north america.
 
I'll bring 2 UPB switch and 2 Insteon to try them out, I just want to do basic stuff anyway (Turn off light from other locations, also timers would be cool).
 
But all I need is a product that can have 2 - 3 switches on 1 plate.  I've looked at bticino website and from what I can see they're a Italian company, and they have some "Smart" device but not what I'm looking for.
 
If I want to use the C-Bus protocol I think I need to wire an STP/UTP Cable, no?  Not really possible for me

 

[picta]

The C-Bus technology uses low-voltage switches connected by STP cable, this is why they can fit up to 8 control buttons in a single gang. In your situation I would use 2 in-line modules for 2 of the loads and a keypad with dimmer at the switch location. Both UPB and Insteon have in-line modules, but they are somewhat bulky, so may be difficult to wire into the fixtures. If that turns out to be the case, you can try the smaller z-wave micro-switches that I have mentioned in my earlier post.

 

[pete_c]

But all I need is a product that can have 2 - 3 switches on 1 plate.

 
The UPB SA Model US22-40 would offer you two circuits and 2 or 3 buttons depending on what you wanted to do.  The third button / paddle could be a remote for another inline or wall switch somewhere else.
 
Check out the UPB multitoggle covers on the Simply Automated US2-40's and the US22-40's. 
 
Relating to the "kitchen" dining area in my home I originally had two switches in to double gang boxes on either side of the dining nook. 
 
Many years ago I did increase the footprint of double gang boxes from single switch mud plates to double switch mud plates and had two switches in each double gang box in the kitchen dining area.
 
Recently (last year) I reduced the footprint with single multifunction switches and dual voltage multifunction (multitoggle) switches. 
 
I did not want to redo and repair the walls for the single plates so instead I purchased on center oversized switch cover plates which work well.
 
I used the 4 button paddle on one side.  It controls locally the kitchen table lighting.  The other three button are for overhead cans and hallways off the main kitchen. The reason I am using the kitchen here is because it's a "room" in the home with many different types of lighting and there were many switches in many gang boxes there.
 
Have a look here at the selection.
 
http://www.simply-automated.com/products/cats/deluxe_dimmer_controls.php
 
You will have to look some and maybe check out the wiring and voltages.  Here I have a hot wire (which is black) and goes to the circuit source breaker, neutral wire (which is white) and goes to the circuit source neutral block, then a wired to the metal box ground wire (which here is green) and the light to and from wires; IE: white for neutral and black (or some other color) for the lighting load.  Such that one light switch has:
 
1 - black hot wire
2 - white neutral wire
3 - green ground to metal gang box wire (many times I have not seen this)
===========================================================
 
Then the two wires going to the light itself:
 
4 - white neutral which is just connected to the white wire going to the gang box from the fuse panel (or source)
5 - load switched black wire (or in my case some other color) (typically on an old fashioned non automated light this goes to one post of two posts on a switch with the other post on the switch connected to the hot black wire).
 
Sometimes for quickness and related to regular light switches the electrican will wire the neutral white directly to the light itself and it will not pass through the gang box.  You would need this wire for a UPB switch.
 
The simpliest gang box would only have two wires; the black hot (from the fuse panel) and the light load wire going from the switch to the light.
 
Don't make assumptions though based on the colors of the wires as I have seen them switched before.  Always shut off the breaker and check to make sure that it is off. 
 
If you don't feel comfortable doing electrical then just have an electrician with you and direct his efforts relating to what you want done. 

 

[malakill]

Thank you guys!  I think the best solution for me would be The US22-40, controlling 2 lights, an inline module for the other light.  And a Dual Rocker 4-Buttons faceplate or maybe even a 4 rockers faceplate.  Now the question is will it fit? haha
 
I'm definitely going to take a look at the D-bus technology
 
Thanks a lot for your help guys
 
Edit: Just saw you edited you post.  Thanks for the explanation, on how switch work, I get it now. I should go at HomeDepot and buy some stuff to learn it.  I'm defiantly going to HomeDepot tomorrow haha.  A friend of mine helped to to wire my UPB switches at home, it wasn't that hard, I had some trouble with the 3 way one but now with my insteons switches I ordered, installed them without any trouble.
 
Tell me if I'm wrong but with insteon it's possible to have an insteon switch without a neutral wire, right?
 
I'd like to get an electrician to do all this stuff but there... In Costa Rica, most of them have no idea what is HomeAutomation.  Also I think some of them just wire stuff how it's supposed to be, if they have a problem they won't be able to troubleshoot it.  Oh if you guys could see some of the stuff they did... haha maybe I'll get some photos and post them sometime.  I'm not going there until November.

 

[apostolakisl]

Tell me if I'm wrong but with insteon it's possible to have an insteon switch without a neutral wire, right?

 
Not to be a bummer, but yes, pretty much you are wrong.  Almost all Insteon switches require a neutral.
 
Here is the main exception:
http://www.smarthome.com/2474DWH/SwitchLinc-2-Wire-Dimmer-INSTEON-Remote-Control-Dimmer-RF-White/p.aspx
 
The big problem is only incandescent loads.  It "leaks" current out through the load (the light bulb) to keep itself powered.

 

[pete_c]

I'd like to get an electrician to do all this stuff but there... In Costa Rica, most of them have no idea what is HomeAutomation.  Also I think some of them just wire stuff how it's supposed to be, if they have a problem they won't be able to troubleshoot it.

Show the electrician the drawing that comes with the UPB switch.  The diagram add really is having a neutral and hot wire to the switch plus using the regular switch wire. 
 
Even if the electrician doesn't know what automation is; he ought to be able to figure out the electrical drawing as it is logical.
 
What is kind of neat for a 3-4 way UPB or Insteon switch is that you do not need to utilize the traveler wire and you can cap that if you just purchase two of the same switches.  Just program the non load switch to talk to the switch with the load.  You can have one switch that controls the load and many that control the one switch with the load.  This makes for less wires and its easier to talk to the switches and configure them with Upstart.  This is my opinion though and here I did cap all of the traveler wires between 3-4 way switches.  An example of this is my second floor hallway.  Each of the four bedrooms have one switch right outside of the doors.  Only one of the four bedrooms control the loads for the hallway lights while the other three just control the switch with the load on it.