I use the Simply Automated UPB switches with an Elk M1. I have up to now only had to put them on lighting circuits with only one switch. I went to install one on a 3 way circuit and it seems that 3 way circuits can only be done when each switch on the circuit is a UPB switch. Some of the circuits I have have 3 switches and at $65 to $70 a piece that seems a little ridiculous. Does anyone know if theres a way to properly wire these in three way circuits without using multiple UPB switches?
3 Way Lighting Circuits with UPB
- Thread starter joe39562
- Start date
tmbrown97
Senior Member
:hesaid:
You'll never be able to use a regular switch as a slave switch, but you don't need one with all the fancy stuff either - the slave works just fine. There's a section on the slave switches in the article in my signature - it's all about UPB with Simply Automated specifically, and there's a bit of info about the slave switches specifically.
Of course if you don't want the slave switches anymore, they could be totally removed from the equation.
You'll never be able to use a regular switch as a slave switch, but you don't need one with all the fancy stuff either - the slave works just fine. There's a section on the slave switches in the article in my signature - it's all about UPB with Simply Automated specifically, and there's a bit of info about the slave switches specifically.
Of course if you don't want the slave switches anymore, they could be totally removed from the equation.
Ranger Digital
Active Member
Correct, slave. No need for $65 at each end.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
To add to this thread - there are two distinct camps on this topic.
The first camp says they want 100% control of the lighting indicators on each switch - and they're willing to spend the extra money to make sure the lights always stay in sync. These people use the full priced switches in each location, and they wire it so that the primary switch controls the load, and the remainder of the switches send links and also follow the links in order to keep their status lights in sync. The problem with this, is that all the non-primary switches must control the load via links - which makes it very hard to keep accurate status... plus it costs a fortune.
The second camp is the one I'm in... When you use a primary switch with a slave switch, the slave acts as an extension of the primary. If you need to go into setup mode, you can tap the slave 5 times and it triggers setup mode. There's no separate device in Upstart, and when you tap the buttons it's the same as tapping the buttons on the primary; no links needed, which means status stays up to date. The drawback however is how you handle the status light. Rather than re-type all the details, please see the section of my writeup in my signature - there are some hookup examples that show how to accomplish different indicator light results. For me it's not 100%, but it's about 95% and I'm good with that, considering the drawbacks of the alternative and the cost savings.
You can choose your own camp but you seem concerned with cost, so the latter is probably your route.
The first camp says they want 100% control of the lighting indicators on each switch - and they're willing to spend the extra money to make sure the lights always stay in sync. These people use the full priced switches in each location, and they wire it so that the primary switch controls the load, and the remainder of the switches send links and also follow the links in order to keep their status lights in sync. The problem with this, is that all the non-primary switches must control the load via links - which makes it very hard to keep accurate status... plus it costs a fortune.
The second camp is the one I'm in... When you use a primary switch with a slave switch, the slave acts as an extension of the primary. If you need to go into setup mode, you can tap the slave 5 times and it triggers setup mode. There's no separate device in Upstart, and when you tap the buttons it's the same as tapping the buttons on the primary; no links needed, which means status stays up to date. The drawback however is how you handle the status light. Rather than re-type all the details, please see the section of my writeup in my signature - there are some hookup examples that show how to accomplish different indicator light results. For me it's not 100%, but it's about 95% and I'm good with that, considering the drawbacks of the alternative and the cost savings.
You can choose your own camp but you seem concerned with cost, so the latter is probably your route.
drozwood90
Senior Member
I would agree with the above. If you are really worried about cost, do slaves. I personally am in the "former" camp. Although, not for the listed reason.
I had some "slave" switches in my last house. I ended up selling them before I put in all the US2-40's in the new house. The reason, in my last house I used slaves, then wanted to change the faceplate to add functionality...and unfortunately it ended up being AT the slave switch.
In my new house, I've not had to re-wire anything, and I've already swapped around a few switches, or added features.
In my kitchen, I have a main switch, and a switch for the lights over the sink. By changing the faceplate + links, I was able to make a DUAL 3 way out of it. Each switch can control either lights. Well, it was easier to say:
Main switch:
left side controls the main lights (on)/all lights off
right side controls the sink
Sink sw:
left side controls ALL the lights (on/off)
right side control the sink.
It was something my wife and I discussed, so it ended up a bit complicated but suits us.
Another example (as that one was a bit poor, but was trying to get my point across):
we have a 3 way that controls the entertainment room. Since we do not use the "salve" switch in the loft to turn lights on, I was able to (by links) re-purpose that switch as a 4way to the living room. The reason, by leaving the living room on, you can get enough light to go up the stairs to the top floor without turning on the stairwell lights. This has the benefit of NOT waking up my children by us needing to turn on the hallway to get to the master bedroom. So, the loft's slave was in the hallway, and I just made that become the 4-way to the entertainment room.
Also, was thinking of adding some Audio controls for my whole house audio, like how a user did on Homeseer's website. Basically certain links will activate events that control audio. I could put those on ANY switch in my house. Which for that loft switch, might be a good idea (make the faceplate a top/rocker and 4 buttons on the bottom). The rocker is the light, the bottom is the audio controls.
I hope that go my reasoning across. And really, for me, if I would have went slave switches (assuming I did not care about the benefits above), I would have saved 5 switches. So, whatever the cost difference is for a (Slave vs. a US2-40) x 5.
--Dan
I had some "slave" switches in my last house. I ended up selling them before I put in all the US2-40's in the new house. The reason, in my last house I used slaves, then wanted to change the faceplate to add functionality...and unfortunately it ended up being AT the slave switch.
In my new house, I've not had to re-wire anything, and I've already swapped around a few switches, or added features.
In my kitchen, I have a main switch, and a switch for the lights over the sink. By changing the faceplate + links, I was able to make a DUAL 3 way out of it. Each switch can control either lights. Well, it was easier to say:
Main switch:
left side controls the main lights (on)/all lights off
right side controls the sink
Sink sw:
left side controls ALL the lights (on/off)
right side control the sink.
It was something my wife and I discussed, so it ended up a bit complicated but suits us.
Another example (as that one was a bit poor, but was trying to get my point across):
we have a 3 way that controls the entertainment room. Since we do not use the "salve" switch in the loft to turn lights on, I was able to (by links) re-purpose that switch as a 4way to the living room. The reason, by leaving the living room on, you can get enough light to go up the stairs to the top floor without turning on the stairwell lights. This has the benefit of NOT waking up my children by us needing to turn on the hallway to get to the master bedroom. So, the loft's slave was in the hallway, and I just made that become the 4-way to the entertainment room.
Also, was thinking of adding some Audio controls for my whole house audio, like how a user did on Homeseer's website. Basically certain links will activate events that control audio. I could put those on ANY switch in my house. Which for that loft switch, might be a good idea (make the faceplate a top/rocker and 4 buttons on the bottom). The rocker is the light, the bottom is the audio controls.
I hope that go my reasoning across. And really, for me, if I would have went slave switches (assuming I did not care about the benefits above), I would have saved 5 switches. So, whatever the cost difference is for a (Slave vs. a US2-40) x 5.
--Dan
tmbrown97
Senior Member
Those are good points - I did similar in a few places in my house, where I didn't see the point in the existing 3-way switch so I turned it into something else.
And like drozwood's kitchen, I had a primary load (4 incandescent can's), a secondary load (two fluorescent cans in the middle) and a 3rd load, the "over the sink" can - by using links I made it so a single switch turns on/off all 3 loads; depending on if you're dimming up or dimming down, the center fluorescent lights are either on/off if you're setting the mood, and at the sink I put a dual rocker + 4 button faceplate, so from there you can trigger any of the scenes or manually control the kitchen lights as you would from the other switch, or manually control just the sink light.
Then there's my guest bathroom, but that would would have to be drawn to properly show it - you'd never follow a text description.
That said, if you're not repurposing your switches for something else, and are replacing two 3-way rockers with two smart 3-way rockers, the slave is often a better choice. If you understand all this enough to get a little trickier, then more power to ya - and unleash the creativity!
And like drozwood's kitchen, I had a primary load (4 incandescent can's), a secondary load (two fluorescent cans in the middle) and a 3rd load, the "over the sink" can - by using links I made it so a single switch turns on/off all 3 loads; depending on if you're dimming up or dimming down, the center fluorescent lights are either on/off if you're setting the mood, and at the sink I put a dual rocker + 4 button faceplate, so from there you can trigger any of the scenes or manually control the kitchen lights as you would from the other switch, or manually control just the sink light.
Then there's my guest bathroom, but that would would have to be drawn to properly show it - you'd never follow a text description.
That said, if you're not repurposing your switches for something else, and are replacing two 3-way rockers with two smart 3-way rockers, the slave is often a better choice. If you understand all this enough to get a little trickier, then more power to ya - and unleash the creativity!
Ranger Digital
Active Member
Im a bit confused on the slave not having the same benefit as a primary. Im have way through putting in about 80 loads in a my home. Some slaves in the mix. I have no problem with status lights indicating properly. They are 100% accurate. SA walked me through the set up using the traveller to send light status back and forth between slave and "master".
So, what benefit am I losing by using slave?? Just starting TODAY on upstart. Switches are in but nothing programmed yet, they all just work as a regularly wired home. So far Im very impressed.
So, what benefit am I losing by using slave?? Just starting TODAY on upstart. Switches are in but nothing programmed yet, they all just work as a regularly wired home. So far Im very impressed.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. The normal switches have a lot of options, from multiple colors, one for on and one for off; etc - you can't mimic that in the slaves (though I did give some options in my UPB writeup). Also the Slaves require a neutral in the Slave location, which isn't always possible. Many of mine work as desired, but I can think of a few exceptions - one where I couldn't get any status light, and three where the best I could get was a status light that followed the actual light (and dims/brightens with the light). Also, one of those is green when the rest of my house uses blue lights, because I had an old slave laying around.
Ranger Digital
Active Member
Thanks work2. However, every single slave I have gives me correct color status. Blue off, green on. Happens instantly. On both ends. Took a call to SA to get the wiring for it but works like a champ and easy to do. I dont recall off top of my head the color combo of what went where but the HOT was used on one of the travellers to slave to power the led.
