3 way wiring issue

jdk972003

Active Member
Done plenty of three ways before but this one is stumping me.  I am at a bit of a loss, how to wire a Z-wave switch (and auxiliary) to replace the current 3 way. I have a hallway with two sets of recessed lights (one for art, one for general lighting). We want to automate one set (Circuit 2).
Both sets of lights have 3way layout with the switches in the same boxes on either end of the hall.
 
To simplify I have included a drawing of what each box is set up currently. Anyone have any leads on this or a process to figure it out? Not that it matters, but I am installing Dragon Z-wave plus switches.
 
http://postimg.org/image/tznpzehhl/
 
 
 
The wiring drawing doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but perhaps I'm making some incorrect assumptions for things that aren't labeled or connections that aren't shown on the unlabeled cables. Or maybe you've made an error in sketching it out.
 
Is the Circuit2 cable at the top of location1 the same cable as the Circuit2 cable at location2?  If so, I don't see how that wiring can be correct.  The white wire which is connected to a traveler terminal at location1 appears to go to a neutral at location2.  But maybe this isn't really the same cable.
 
What is wired to the Circuit1 cable at location1?  Another DV603P?  A plain 3-way switch?
 
Where do the unlabeled cables at location2 go?  To the fixtures? 
 
Right now, I'm thinking that 3-wire cable on the right top end of location2 is the Circuit1 cable at location1, and the 2-wire cable  that is the 3rd from the top left at location2 goes to the circuit1 fixture.  This would make sense for a proper 3-way circuit for circuit1.

Is the connection that ties the white wires together at location2 the neutral?  Seems like it must be.
 
Thus, it would seem that the 2-wire cable that is the 2nd from the top left at location2 must be the cable to the lighting fixture for circuit2.   But since it is tied directly to both hot and neutral along with the always-hot cable, that makes no sense.
 
To figure this out further, I would explore the wiring at the light fixtures.  Turn off all the circuit breakers for these circuits, disconnect the wiring, and then use an ohm meter to ring out each cable and figure out which cable goes where.  If there is only a 2-wire cable coming into each fixture, that will tell you something.  But if there are 3-wire cables or multiple cables, that might help explain the puzzling wiring.
 
Also, double check the actual wiring against your drawing to make sure the drawing is correct.
 
Edit:

Here's one way that it might be wired, assuming the two circuit2 cables are not actually the same cable, but are instead  cables to the light fixture. (Apologies for my poor scribbled drawing of the wires).
 
http://cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=957&file=max
 
First , thanks for your time and brain power on this. I think I just needed a fresh set of eyes to get the answer.
 
RAL said:
The wiring drawing doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but perhaps I'm making some incorrect assumptions for things that aren't labeled or connections that aren't shown on the unlabeled cables. Or maybe you've made an error in sketching it out.
 
Is the Circuit2 cable at the top of location1 the same cable as the Circuit2 cable at location2?  If so, I don't see how that wiring can be correct.  The white wire which is connected to a traveler terminal at location1 appears to go to a neutral at location2.  But maybe this isn't really the same cable.  I do not believe it is
 
What is wired to the Circuit1 cable at location1?  Another DV603P?  A plain 3-way switch? Plain 3 way switch
 
Where do the unlabeled cables at location2 go?  To the fixtures? Unknown
 
Right now, I'm thinking that 3-wire cable on the right top end of location2 is the Circuit1 cable at location1,  Agree and the 2-wire cable  that is the 3rd from the top left at location2 goes to the circuit1 fixture. Agree This would make sense for a proper 3-way circuit for circuit1. Agree (I had some of this figured out but didn't want to make assumptions for my question in case I was wrong)

Is the connection that ties the white wires together at location2 the neutral?  Seems like it must be. Yes
 
Thus, it would seem that the 2-wire cable that is the 2nd from the top left at location2 must be the cable to the lighting fixture for circuit2.   But since it is tied directly to both hot and neutral along with the always-hot cable, that makes no sense. I think its the supply to the box from the breaker.
 
To figure this out further, I would explore the wiring at the light fixtures.  Turn off all the circuit breakers for these circuits, disconnect the wiring, and then use an ohm meter to ring out each cable and figure out which cable goes where.  If there is only a 2-wire cable coming into each fixture, that will tell you something.  But if there are 3-wire cables or multiple cables, that might help explain the puzzling wiring.
Last ditch option as its 40' of hallway w/ 36-48" of insulation on the fixtures (which may be sealed under tenmat isolation covers)
 
 
RAL said:
Also, double check the actual wiring against your drawing to make sure the drawing is correct.
 
Edit:

Here's one way that it might be wired, assuming the two circuit2 cables are not actually the same cable, but are instead  cables to the light fixture. (Apologies for my poor scribbled drawing of the wires).
 
http://cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=957&file=max
 
Ok that starts to make sense, but leads to the next question, how do I wire it to the zwave switches?  
 (I think I know but playing dumb so I get a clear answer without my confusion getting involved)
 
Here's a way to adapt the wiring to Dragon Tech Z-wave switches.   Unfortunately, since both the master and the slave switch requires a neutral, and a neutral is not currently present at location1, you're going to have to make some wiring changes in the fixture box to re-purpose one of the existing travelers to become a neutral.
 
index.php
 
That is what I thought.
 
Just to make sure I am understanding this correctly, the current wiring is illegal (they have a white and black wired together as traveler).
 
If I was to continue to allow incorrect colored wiring, I could re-purpose wires to to achieve the same goal, but still illegal and dangerous.
 
Looks like an attic weekend for me
 
It's not illegal or dangerous to connect a white and black wire together, but the electrical code says that the white wire should be marked with a black marker or black tape to indicate that it is not a neutral wire. 
 
The electrical code did not always require marking the wire, so depending on when your house was built, it may have been compliant with the code at that time.
 
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