A couple UPB questions

[FaderJockey]

I have 5 sliders on the back of the house, each with a sconce outside controlled directly by a single switch inside it's respective door.

2 sets of floodlights, one controlled by a switch downstairs by the centermost slider and the other from the upstairs master bedroom.

What I would like to do is to replace each of the individual sconce switches with a 4 button keypad that does the following:

Button 1 - Individual Sconce
Button 2 - All Sconces
Button 3 - Floods
Button 4 - LV Accent (future function)

After some reading here (PITA trying to search "upb" btw..) it seems a multi-button switch with local load control would be the way to go.
It looks like I could define load groups in the software to activate from multiple buttons?

What's confusing me is that most of these switches are listed as 'scene controllers' which leads me to believe I have to select 1 OR 2 OR 3, as opposed to 1 AND 2.

Is there a simple multi button UPB switch with local load control that is fully assignable?

Also, on the subject, what's the preferred UPB interface for an M1 Gold with an M1XEP and what software should I be looking at to setup/maintain the UPB system?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Desert_AIP]

Simply Automated US240 with a Rocker + 4 Button faceplate will give you local control and 4 scene switches.
Or you could use the same base with a 4 or 8 button faceplate if you didn't want the rocker.
With a 4 button panel you would set up the buttons as toggles, but they can get out of sync if you turn on at one switch and off at another.
With the 8 button panels used as a four scene controller you configure it with a dedicated on button and an off button for each scene so the buttons don't get out of sync.

 

[FaderJockey]

The 4 button is what I'd like to do, but I'm unclear as to what you mean by out of sync?

I assumed a push on any button @ any location would just toggle the group it controls.

 

[Desert_AIP]

If you have multiple 4 button controllers that control the same loads through links you can get out of sync if you set the buttons as toggle.
I assume you would want ON/OFF control of all scenes from all switches.

If you only want to activate the link - turn them on, then they will all send the on signal but you will need another method to turn off the lights.
Another button, or walk around and turn them off individually, or something similar.

If you want to be able to turn on and off the different loads from more than one location, you would most likely set the button to toggle mode.
Press the button once and the scene goes on or is activated, press a second time and the scene goes off or is deactivated.
The on/off toggle memory is held locally at the individual switch where the button was pressed.
The other switches have no idea that the link button was pressed.

So if you press the scene 1 button on switch A, the scene will go on.
Then if you go over to switch B and hit the scene 1 button (to try to turn them off), nothing will appear to happen.
Because the button on switch B sent the ON command because it was the first time you pressed the button on that switch.
Now, if you press the scene 1 button on switch B a second time, the scene WILL go off because it has now toggled locally to the opposite function.

Now multiply that by four different switches and all the buttons can get out of synch quickly.
The draw back is you may have to press any given button twice to achieve the desired result On or Off.
This gave me a serious deduction in the WAF points area.

If you use an 8 button faceplate this can't happen
You make each button single action ON or OFF.
It sends the same command everytime it is pressed and can't get out of synch with the others.
So you give each scene a pair of buttons. Scene 1 ON, Scene 1 OFF, Scene 2 ON, Scene 2 OFF etc.
You can make the top pair of buttons the local load.
Alternately with the rocker + 4 faceplate you could do this with local control and two scenes and not have synch problems.

In your case I would use this
Local Sconce - Rocker
All Sconces - Top pair of buttons ON/OFF
Floods - Bottom pair of buttons ON/OFF

(LV Accent) add an 8 button keypad or another switch for the new load.

You could also do something like this
Local Sconce - Rocker
All Sconces - Top Left button ON
Floods - Top Right button ON
LV Accent - Bottom Left button ON
All OFF - Bottom Right button OFF

With that setup they won't get out of synch.
The only draw back is if you want to shut off some but not all of the lights you have to shut them all off then turn the ones you want on back on.
Still kind of kludgy.

You could do something similar with the 4 mini rocker switch panel and not have synch problems.
I forgot about that one because I don't use it, I don't like the tiny rockers. But they may be a better option for you in this application.

You have to play with your plan a little to get the effect you want.

 

[FaderJockey]

Alrighty, gotcha.

So I guess the real question is, if I tie in to the Elk or quark, homeseer, etc.. Can I set a upb switch to strictly be a remote?

By that, I mean setting the switch only to send a signal to a controller that in turn decides what action to take and effects it.

"whenever (keypad 2, button 1) activates then toggle (load 2)".. something to that effect.

Or do I need to look to a different tech for that?

Thanks for the info

 

[Desert_AIP]

Whoops!
Slow server...

 

[Desert_AIP]

You could do that with links.

Make link 1 the all sconces signal
Make link 2 the actual all sconces link
Use a toggle flag

Pseudo code (HAI style here)

When receive Link 1 ON
Then TOGGLE sconce toggle

When sconce toggle ON
Then send Link 2 ON

When sconce toggle OFF
Then send Link 2 OFF

Then the logic is taken care of at the controller not the switch.

 

[FaderJockey]

So the more I dig around on this, it seems the Insteon/ISY setup operates more like the way I'd like to implement it.

Does Insteon still have issues or have they fixed the problems in subsequent production?

 

[FaderJockey]

Anyone?

 

[Digger]

UDI makes great products. Worth every penny.

 

[WayneW]

Does Insteon still have issues or have they fixed the problems in subsequent production?

My ISY/Insteon/Elk installation has been very reliable.

 

[FaderJockey]

Thanks.

Wayne, how old is your install? Can you control the LED logic independent of switch status through the ISY?

 

[WayneW]

Wayne, how old is your install? Can you control the LED logic independent of switch status through the ISY?

I was an early adopter of Insteon, so lots of devices are quite old. It isn't perfect, as I have had a few device failures and a few with the paddle issue, but nothing to make me switch yet.
I was a late adopter of the ISY, but have now drunk the kool-aid and believe
No, I don't think there is control of the LEDs, but I have never tried. The ISY forum would be the best place for an official answer as ISY has great support.