Apriliare 8870 Thermostat - If using home auotmation software do you need their controller?

P

personalt

Active Member
I was looking to control aprailaire 8870 via CQC but my question if more general about the unit and would apply to using any home auotamation software to control.

From what I see the 8870s do not each have their own webservers built in to each thermostat?.
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufact...aire/Item/8870/

I am trying to figure out what I need if controller these units via home automation. It seems maybe I just need the protocol adapter for $114. I was wondering if I need the distribution panel and more importantly the $700+ automation contoller.

It appears the protocol adapter is what makes the signal RS232 and the system control is what creates the webbrowser?

Anyone use this thermostat?

$87 distribution panel
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Climate/a...ting/Item/8818/


The distribution panel is wired in a $114 protocol adapter
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Climate/a...ting/Item/8811/

The protocol adapter is wired a $780 system controller
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Climate/a...ting/Item/8825/
 
The thermostats communicate via a somewhat uncommon form of RS485, the protocol adapter exposes the interface via RS232. The RS232 interface can be read by many automation systems including HAI, ELK, CQC, Homeseer, etc. So in summary:

1) Thermostats control your HVAC
2) Protocol adapter allows RS232 communication to the thermostats
3) Many automation systems, not just Aprilaire, have web servers and can display the information in many different ways.

So most likely you need all 3. The thermostat, protocol adapter and automation system(you pick). The distribution panel is optional and only useful if you have multiple thermostats.
 
I had considered buying an 8870 and learned, from posts here and on the CQC forum, that you're not obliged to use the Aprilaire brand of RS485/RS232 protocol converter. Other vendors offer converters that are very reasonably priced. In addition, you can opt for an RS485/Ethernet converter if your PC doesn't have any serial ports.

In the case of multiple 8870's, they can be daisy-chained and each thermostat is identified by a unique address. As mentioned by icellama21, the distribution panel simplifies the wiring of multiple thermostats and is not essential.

The 8870 is not a standalone thermostat. It cannot store schedules and operate independently. It is driven exclusively by an external controller such as Home Automation software, ELK M1, etc.

My HA software has an 8870 driver, but I never bought one because I want a thermostat that can operate independently (like the HAI RC series). Currently, my (non-communicating) Robertshaw thermostat does a great job and I can't cost-justify a ~$300 HAI RC-2000.
 
I have 3 Apriliare 8870s hooked up to my Elk M1, and controlled by CQC. I could just as easily connect them directly to my CQC server with the same hardware.

The only thing you need, in addition to the actual thermostats, is the protocol adapter. The distribution panel is used for a nice neat install, OR if you do not have power coming back from the HVAC system, to power the thermostats. In the latter case, the distribution panel can provide the power for the thermostats. Otherwise, you simply tie all of the thermostats together on the same wires on the protocol adapter, and all will work just fine (as long as you have given each thermostat a unique thermostat number). The distribution panel can also serve as an easier way to troubleshoot, but I have found tht these stats have been pretty rock solid.

The automation controller is only used if you do not have something else that you will be hooking the stats up to (such as an Elk or a CQC server).

I also hooked up my father-in-law's house, using 1 protocol adapter for 4 8870s. His is wired directly into his Elk M1.
 
That automation controller looks like one of the older HomeLogic EdgeBrick devices. I think they have been discontinued.
 
Thanks for all the info. This is going to be at a rental that I own so I dont have and ELK units or CQC there. I am either looking for an affordable local controller or use my fios 15/5 connection(at both houses) to create a VPN tunnel and control from my house.

One point that stands out is that the thermostat has no logic. You cant even set basic setbacks it appears based on comments above. If the controller is remote, it better be stable. I have had my fios connection up for year without and disconnects so I feel okay about that but I like the idea of a local control that I can remotely access.

One thought I had was to create a VPN tunnel and place a HP thin client on site. The thin client would allow me use a RS485 to RS232 adapter and then have CQC work over VPN.

Taking that a step further I think I could get a RS485 to TCP/IP adapter and have that work right through the tunnel...

Or I could just buy their automation controller, it is almost $800 there but I saw it somewhere else for around $350. That might be the best bet.

Hats off to the guy that said it looked like a HomeLogic EdgeBrick. If you google HomeLogic EdgeBrick and aprilaire you get some matches. It seems thy were the OEM supplier.


I was looking at proliphix, cheapest unit that does that is the 120e which is $399.00 on their site. Considering I need 3 of them I was looking for other solutions.


signal15 said:
Proliphix makes some IP thermostats that might be interesting to check out.
Click to expand...
 
You might look at the RCS line. The TR40 (at least) will work standalone as well as part of a HA system. I think the TR40 has been replaced by the TR60. There is also a TR16. The TR units are serial RS485. They also have other models using Z-Wave, WiFi, X10, UPB.
 
The TR-16 and the TR-40 have the same features and capacity. (The newer TR-60 might have a new feature or two). Really the only difference between the TR-16 and the TR-40 is the screen. The TR-40 has a larger screen that displays a lot of information and also allows a user to enter more information. The TR-16 simply shows the temp and has a couple of buttons to change a few of the basic settings (like fan mode, HVAC mode, etc). But the more complicated functions must be accessed via a computer and the RS-485 connection on the TR-16 while some of them can be done at the display unit with the TR-40.
 
Frederick C. Wilt said:
That automation controller looks like one of the older HomeLogic EdgeBrick devices. I think they have been discontinued.
Click to expand...
Here is the press release in which Homelogic and Aprilaire announce their partnership and that Aprilaire will sell an EdgeBrick as the Aprilaire Model 8825 System Controller.

http://www.homelogic.com/news/2004_10_19a.pdf

I dunno if they are discontinued, but they appear to be still available.

I am looking at ways to add additional zoning to our new geothermal HVAC and have not yet found a way to integrate Homeseer + Aprilaire 8870 T-stats + variable speed motors in the WaterFurnace units + zone control dampers.

... Marc
 
personalt said:
I was looking to control aprailaire 8870 via CQC but my question if more general about the unit and would apply to using any home auotamation software to control.

From what I see the 8870s do not each have their own webservers built in to each thermostat?.
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufact...aire/Item/8870/

I am trying to figure out what I need if controller these units via home automation. It seems maybe I just need the protocol adapter for $114. I was wondering if I need the distribution panel and more importantly the $700+ automation contoller.

It appears the protocol adapter is what makes the signal RS232 and the system control is what creates the webbrowser?

Anyone use this thermostat?
Click to expand...

I was one of the two folks that lent Dean Roddey an 8870 to test his 8870 interface and know that multiple 8870's work with CQC.

My 8870's also worked with my installation of CyberHouse and now Homeseer. So the $700 automation hardware controller is not required when used with a PC through a serial port.

One Protocol Adapter or equivalent ( RS-232<--> RS-485) is needed. Be forewarned that the Aprilaire (oiginally Statnet / Enerzone) RS-485 bus is full duplex with separate RX and TX pairs (4-wires+ power) . Most "RS-232->485 converters" are 2-wire and will not work.

HTH ... Marc
 
Marc, what thermostats did you end up using with your WaterFurnace units? I've got 8870s controlling an older gas furnace/AC system that we are considering replacing with WaterFurnace.

Thanks.
-Chris
 
CJOhlandt said:
Marc, what thermostats did you end up using with your WaterFurnace units? I've got 8870s controlling an older gas furnace/AC system that we are considering replacing with WaterFurnace.

Thanks.
-Chris
Click to expand...

Five 8870's to control four Heat Controller ( aka Comfort-Aire) geothermal units. Could just as well have been WaterFurnace brand units, but they aren't (Longish, geothermal-related story omitted for brevity ;-)

Aprilaire 8870's provide no substantial increase in functionality over the Enerzone models from 15 years ago that they replaced except that now the one model (8870) at one price point covers a variety of AC+Heat+Heatpump configurations that were available from Enerzone at different prices depending on the functionality required. I use them because I've 'always' used them (= inertia).

IMO, the most glaring deficiency is failure to incorporate humidity control into an 8870 successor that is compatible with the 8870. Aprilaire sells humidifiers with separate control units but no way to integrate with 8870 short of discarding the humidity controller provided and dedicating a whole 8870 to just humidification (one 8870 per geothermal/furnace/heatpump) or the abusively-priced comprehensive control system they offer. Ditto for Aprilaire filter units.

... Marc
 
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