Beginner Questions for HA startup

[vacationer]

I currently have a little project going on where I am converting an upstairs bedroom to a nursery and the wife wants me to put in some dimmers. I was online pricing out some dimmers (currently have Lutron Maestro dimmers in other areas) so naturally I was looking to buy some more of those when Z-Wave products caught my attention. The plan is to be able to control the light / fan from another room in our house using our Android based tablet / phones (and possibly from outside our network). I was also reading were these switches could eventually be integrated into a master control system like micasaverde (which I may be interested in the future).

So in a nutshell, since they are somewhat comparable in price, I wanted to see how others felt about installing one Z-Wave dimmer switch along with Z-Wave fan control (looks like Leviton is one of the only ones that make this) to kind of get my feet wet with home automation?

Just to give you a description of my setup, I have a fan with light kit that is wired into a switch that has a separate switch for the light and fan. I had all my fans installed like that (separated light / fan) when we built the house a few years ago.

Here are the products that I am currently looking at: (Can't post links yet due to new member)

GE-45612 Wireless Lighting Control / Z-Wave Dimmer

Leviton VRF01-1LZ (Fan Control)

I will also add that if there are other options (hard wire vs wireless solutions) that I should consider let me know as well. I have wire pathing holes available to run additional wires since I will be pulling for tv display and audio while I am at it.

Thanks for any assistance that you can provide.....

 

[potts.mike]

I have a zwave network with 16 switches in it, they are a mix of vizia rf+ and cheap intermatics. I would highly recommend getting all vizia rf+ devices if reliability is a concern.

You will also Need a master controller and some sort of gateway ( a pc with software or the Vera line) to access the switches remotely.

 

[vacationer]

I have a zwave network with 16 switches in it, they are a mix of vizia rf+ and cheap intermatics. I would highly recommend getting all vizia rf+ devices if reliability is a concern.

You will also Need a master controller and some sort of gateway ( a pc with software or the Vera line) to access the switches remotely.

Vizia rf+ (Is that just the Leviton switches?) So are you saying the GE one that I gave the model # for is not very good / reliable?

I don't quite understand about needing a master controller and some sort of gateway? For the gateway I assume you mean a spare pc with some software running on it so that it communicates with the switches? Sorry for the newb questions....I was under the impression nothing other than software would be needed?

Thanks for the assistance.....

 

[potts.mike]

I don't have experience with GE switches but my intermatics suck and my leviton vizia rf are awesome.

You need some way to bridge the zwave network to the pc network. Either a pc with a USB or serial module or an appliance like the mi casa verde products.

 

[vacationer]

I don't have experience with GE switches but my intermatics suck and my leviton vizia rf are awesome.

You need some way to bridge the zwave network to the pc network. Either a pc with a USB or serial module or an appliance like the mi casa verde products.

Ok thanks for the info regarding the switches...I will look into the leviton switches instead of the GE

I have been reading a decent amount of online info and the knowledge is starting to slowly sink in...I think....what about if I did not want to control anything from "outside" my network at this point...and just wanted to be able to control from LAN? Would I still need a hardware controller like micasverde? Or do they make mobile "apps" (Android) that will communicate with the z-wave switches?

If not, then I was also reading that you could go the pc route and install software like "Premise" and then use a USB stick for the communication to the z-wave switches / devices? Am I on the right track?

I have a few older pc's laying around not really doing anything (FTP / File Server) so maybe I could go the pc route? Don't want to sound cheap but I am just trying to enter the water slowly until I decide (and can convince the significant other) that purchasing a $200 VeraLite is a necessity!

Thanks again for your assistance, I really appreciate it!

 

[potts.mike]

Wifi and zwave are on different frequencies so you need a piece of hardware to bridge the two networks. Premise on an old pc with the leviton serial module would certainly work.

 

[vacationer]

Wifi and zwave are on different frequencies so you need a piece of hardware to bridge the two networks. Premise on an old pc with the leviton serial module would certainly work.

Ok, that does make sense about them being two different frequencies. I just looked up the leviton serial module and its like 120 bucks....not to far off from just picking up a hardware controller like the veralite.

Anyway, I did see another usb stick (Aeon Labs) for quite a bit cheaper (62 bucks). Any feedback about this product?

Also, any ideas on hard wired solutions which would take the frequency deal totally out of the equation? Maybe there is something that would hardwire directly into LAN switch and then be control via pc software? Dunno just thinking out loud again..lol

 

[potts.mike]

I'm not sure if premise supports the USB stick or not. My only experience is with zwave, there is upb which power line technology, insteon and I also think belkin just introduced a wifi switch. Maybe someone else will chime in concerning the other technologies.

 

[pete_c]

I do software and hardware control of the two small Z-Wave networks that I have in place today.

That said I have a Leviton RF (Vizia rf+) serial controller and a serially connected Homeseer Z-Troller. (and a MiCasa Z-Wave box - off at the current time).

Insteon is a hybrid combo wired and wireless set up. I have an Inteon PLM in place still today. Another wireless automation uses Zigbee.

The "in the wall" metal electrical switch gang boxes here are all UPB these days.

Historically they have been X-10 then later Insteon.

There is also hard wired automation switches that exists today.

Recently I have purchased UPB multirocker switches such that single footprint UPB switches control multiple UPB switches via their links and reduced the double gang two switch implementations to single gange singel switch multiple rockers UPB switches.

The automation switch which uses conventional networking topology is already here in a wireless form. I have not seen a wired automation light switch to a network switch; but maybe that is around the corner.

Your means and choices of automating lights and fans are bountiful. That said its really what works best for you and what you are most comfortable with. Each of the technologies have their pluses and minuses.

 

[tmbrown97]

Your plan to test the waters is perfect - it's the best way to get started. I'm not a Z-Wave person, but I've been around these boards for years and I see that there are all grades of Z-Wave from the super cheap and unreliable (and stripped feature set) to the full compatibility higher-end ones. One thing I struggle with is how so many people seem to have a mix of all different styles of switches around their homes; in my home I use 100% SA UPB switches all with identical function, light colors, feel, fade method, etc...

There are definitely hardwired options but they have a much smaller market that's usually reserved for higher dollar installs using dedicated expensive controllers - these retrofit options have a much larger market so there's a lot more happening with them and the available integration methods.

If you really wanted to go cutting edge and forgo the controller, you could hold out for these new offerings on the horizon; I guess now we've got wifi bulbs and light switches even thanks to Belkin - I'm not sure how quickly they'll release to market, but that way you could skip the gateway and have direct smartphone control. That'll be a fun technology to watch emerge as people try to figure out how to integrate 50 light switches, 150 light bulbs, and 20-30 outlets plus smartphones, laptops, computers, alarm clocks, and everything else onto wifi - soon I'm sure these forums will turn to Wifi design to support such applications! /tangent

Good luck - most of our wives have come around - just make sure nothing you do causes lights to turn on unexpectedly while baby is sleeping and you should survive. Screw that up once though, and you may never be allowed back here!

 

[vacationer]

pete_c and work2play-

Thank you both for your replies as well. I have been researching this all day today and even did a little research into the upb options. I like the upb options but was not sure how exactly it works. Do you have to run extra wire to the switch such as cat5 wire? Also, I was a little confused on whether I would need a phase coupler with the install...I would have to figure in extra cost to get that added to panel.

I looked into the new Belkin stuff as well and even looked up their existing WeMo and a few people have commented how it goes "offline" and is not stable. So not sure if the backing is going to be there for a little while for the wifi stuff. Maybe that would be better served to wait a year or two to see how it develops?

And back to the z-wave option once again....I was thinking a good "starter" option would be to buy the 2 switches I need for the bedroom conversion and then go ahead and pick up a veralite and call it a day. I assume you do not need a "software" solution when dealing with the veralite? You just configure the built in software within the device? Not 100% sure how that works either.....Or do you need some sort of "bridge" for the different z-wave frequency? Sorry I am so confused.....

Thanks for your assistance....

 

[dgage]

Veralite has built in capability (read receiver/transmitter) for Z-wave. As a matter of fact, you could later connect the Veralite to an HAI or Elk security system via serial and get some integration there I believe. Also, some of the PC based HA software has drivers for the Vera devices. So it is a pretty flexible option and even if you replace it later, it likely has resell value. However, I would like to point out the Leviton VRC0P is the most popular Zwave interface and likely what all of the manufacturers focus on for compatibility.

David

 

[vacationer]

Veralite has built in capability (read receiver/transmitter) for Z-wave. As a matter of fact, you could later connect the Veralite to an HAI or Elk security system via serial and get some integration there I believe. Also, some of the PC based HA software has drivers for the Vera devices. So it is a pretty flexible option and even if you replace it later, it likely has resell value. However, I would like to point out the Leviton VRC0P is the most popular Zwave interface and likely what all of the manufacturers focus on for compatibility.

David

Dave-

Thanks for your response! I think the veralite may be the way to go....little bit more of a "startup" cost than I had originally planned but def sounds like its something that can be built upon for future expansion. So just so I understand correctly, there would be no need for anything (PC running software) when you use the veralite? Just the veralite, which I assume is the "controller", and then your actual hardware (switches, etc)?

I believe I read you access the veralite from a pc via a web browser (like you would a wifi router)? I assume that is how you configure the settings etc....

Also, with the veralite this would give you the flexibility to control switches, etc from outside as well with port forwarding?

Thanks...sorry for the multiple questions....just trying to soak all this in

 

[tmbrown97]

If starting with Z-Wave, then the Vera is the way to go.... more upfront cost but it'll be well worth it. In fact, I wouldn't waste time on the Lite - I'd just bite the bullet and get the full one; if you don't, you'll regret it later.

If you want to know more about UPB, there are links in my signature. It's purely powerline and doesn't require additional wires.