Best practice for TV/HT/Audio setup? Central or Distributed?

[sic0048]

Video over IP is an option and CAT5 is cheaper than the precision coax we are talking about. But the equipment/balums/converters used in various systems can quickly bring the cost up to or above the coax approach.

That is a good point and one I forgot. I know that I am using the cable when I run it, so I run the cheapest method at the time. For component cables that is the mini precision coaxial cable. The alternative is to run plenty of Cat5e wire and run baluns for any signals you need. The baluns have a big price range depending on what signals you are trying to convert, but an average might be about $100/pair. That made it more costly in my situation, but you might want to really explore this option yourself. If you know that 80% of the cable run isn't going to be used for a while, then running cat5e is probably better. If you know there are locations where you will use the wire right away, using the correct wire without baluns is probably more cost effective.

As CollinR mentioned, running cat5e wire will also allow you to "future proof" as much as possible because hopefully there will be baluns made for future needs. This is one reason that I ran 2 cat5e wires in addition to the precision coax to every location. Actually I ran at least 2 cat5e wires to every drop I made, regardless of initial purpose of the drop. I agree that it is impossible to run too much cat5e wire, but it is easy to find out that you didn't run enough. So definitely run more than you think you need.

 

[SpuTTer]

The upstairs rooms will be pretty easy to run anything later via the attic. In the lower room, where access is more of an issue, I will install conduit as well. I was planning on running 5 RG6 and 2 CAT5 to each TV location. for the video stuff, plus at least one additional cat5 for lan. I'll also have at least one conduit at any areas that are hard to access in order to drop in more catX, fiber, etc at a later date).

What kind of connector is best for this big bundle of QSRG6?

 

[CollinR]

Not enough Cat5, run at least 3 but that really only covers a display really well not source devices too.

 

[sic0048]

What kind of connector is best for this big bundle of QSRG6?

Get a compression tool and compression fittings. I'd highly recommend the Paladin 1555 since it is a universal compression tool and can be used on all three sizes of coaxial wire as well as a selection of compression fittings (like F, RCA, etc). So you don't have to buy a different tool for each connection or wire type.

You can terminate with F connectors (think regular coaxial cable fittings) or RCA. I'd probably go with F connectors and use F to RCA adapters if needed.

Something like this.

 

[86turbodsl]

If you use an IP based distribution system you have no quality loss between the data storage and the local location further you don't need a direct cable link only need a link to any switch that has a link.

this is a very good point. I don't know why more folks aren't looking into server based media distribution over IP. That's the way my house is setup. Rather than distribute lots of analog signals through expensive switches, I just use a central media server with little silent pc's at each location I need video/audio. plugs into any standard network jack. I ran some RG6 as a backup, but will rarely use it.

Cat 5 in the walls is basically all you need for perfect distribution of any content. (besides the obvious pc of course)

 

[sic0048]

this is a very good point. I don't know why more folks aren't looking into server based media distribution over IP. That's the way my house is setup. Rather than distribute lots of analog signals through expensive switches, I just use a central media server with little silent pc's at each location I need video/audio. plugs into any standard network jack. I ran some RG6 as a backup, but will rarely use it.

Cat 5 in the walls is basically all you need for perfect distribution of any content. (besides the obvious pc of course)

Some of us don't want any components located in each room. I want just the display at each location around my house. To do this requires distribution of HD video signals (and speaker wires, but that is cut and dry). The easiest and most dependable way to do that today is via component video cables. Hence the need to at least plan for this type of distribution while the OP house is undergoing a major remodel. They may elect to have local devices and forgo the complicated distribution method, but at least they have the choice in the future.

Distributing signals via Cat5 wire is simply and the most "future friendly" option, but rarely the most cost effective. So if someone is planning on using a component distribution system right away and not simply trying to "future proof", then running precision coaxial cable is much cheaper and a better solution IMHO. Using cat5e and baluns just add another layer of complexity and a pair of device that could fail at some point.

Either way works, but to say using Cat5e only is the better solution isn't accurate.

Also, you mention the need for expensive switches, yet your solution requires a silent PC at every location. Depending on the number of locations (ie more than one), this can quickly become more expensive than a $400 used matrix switch (even with some sort of software package to control it with).

I hope this post doesn't come off as arguementative, because I am not trying to be. But I do hope I have explained why limiting yourself to only running cat5e may not be the best solution.

 

[SpuTTer]

Got the cable in the mail. It's Teledata Express, RG6 Digital Quad Shield, SCC, 60+40 alum braid. Seems fairly flexible (compared to what I was expecting after hearing how stiff it is). Seems like nice stuff for now. I'll run 5 of these and 3 cat5's to eat location for video and hope for the best.

I can only get 3/4" conduit my my lower TV location, and even that is tight, I'll try to run 2 of them so I can throw a CATx or fiber or whatever technology X is down the line.

 

[tmbrown97]

I know when I wired my place a year ago, I ended up going with 3 Cat5 and 3 RG6 to each location... and in the bedrooms, there's 2 more Cat5 on an opposing wall. Den has two full plates, and even a set on the bar in case I put a TV or touchscreen computer there.

My thinking: DTV takes 2-3 depending, and I have basic cable (no box) just because it comes with the internet package (it's actually $2 cheaper than internet without) - so if I wanted a tivo and basic cable in the bedroom, that'd use all three... in the den on one wall, the TV just plays what's on the livingroom tivo, so I turned the 3 RG6's into RCA's and used the second Tivo output.

Anything else you can run over Cat5 with baluns - this is true... but HDMI turns out tends to use 2 Cat5. Everything else I've seen only needs 1. For simple signals, I've even made my own with some RCA ends and a soldering iron, and that works pretty well.

Right now though I'm trying to distribute more VGA and HDMI and I'm seeing that it's going to get very expensive running that all over the place with baluns, so I haven't quite figured out the best way... I like the idea of a simple IP based solution, but would have to find a nice tiny distribution device because some of the TV locations have no place for equipment.

Just some considerations... Also, I can say that the wiring group for those 6 wires, because of the RG6, is extremely stiff.

Another consideration too - I didn't think much of running the wire - I get Cat5 free, so I just bought the Coax and Speaker wire... What I didn't account for was the cost of terminating all that... I spent hundreds more on the Cat5 ends and even the barrel connectors and RG6 ends, and I already own all the tools and even had the wallplates (not to mention the blisters on my fingers from terminating all that).

 

[SpuTTer]

Hah, yes I am not looking forward to terminating all of that Luckily, most of the copper Im putting in the wall right now wont be used, it's for "just in case" kind of stuff, but I will still get my fair share of connecting

Thanks for the advice.

 

[SnyperBob]

Got the cable in the mail. It's Teledata Express, RG6 Digital Quad Shield, SCC, 60+40 alum braid. Seems fairly flexible (compared to what I was expecting after hearing how stiff it is).

SCC? Does that mean Copper Clad steel? I've only heard that referred to as CCS. If you bought CCS, that is why your cables are flexible. I made the same mistake and bought/ran my entire house with CCS RG6 Quad Shield. From my understanding it's not as good as BC (Bare Copper).

Others can chime in here, but I think you'd want to go with BC rather than Copper Clad Steel. I do not know much about this. I thought I read somewhere that if you're going to just use cable tv, then CCS is OK. But if you're going to use Satellite, you'll want bare copper (BC).

BC cable is more rigid than CCS if I understand it correctly. I know that BC is usually more expensive. I liked how easy it was to work with CCS tho when I ran my wires. I ran two cat5e's, one cat6, and three RG6 QS CCS's to each location. I was able to terminate all these inside the wall without issues. I started wondering what everyone was talking about in terms of RG6 QS being a 'bear' to work with in bundles. I think it's all related to bare copper RG6 QS

 

[SpuTTer]

Oh sorry, SCC = Solid Copper Core. Maybe the core doesnt matter on stiffness than and maybe it's just a 'bear' to work with compared to something like CAT5 where you can spin loops of it? Note, I havent worked with it yet, but first glance and feel it doesnt seem like it would be too big of a deal. Maybe it depends on the outer jacket? Not sure!

Got the cable in the mail. It's Teledata Express, RG6 Digital Quad Shield, SCC, 60+40 alum braid. Seems fairly flexible (compared to what I was expecting after hearing how stiff it is).

SCC? Does that mean Copper Clad steel? I've only heard that referred to as CCS. If you bought CCS, that is why your cables are flexible. I made the same mistake and bought/ran my entire house with CCS RG6 Quad Shield. From my understanding it's not as good as BC (Bare Copper).

Others can chime in here, but I think you'd want to go with BC rather than Copper Clad Steel. I do not know much about this. I thought I read somewhere that if you're going to just use cable tv, then CCS is OK. But if you're going to use Satellite, you'll want bare copper (BC).

BC cable is more rigid than CCS if I understand it correctly. I know that BC is usually more expensive. I liked how easy it was to work with CCS tho when I ran my wires. I ran two cat5e's, one cat6, and three RG6 QS CCS's to each location. I was able to terminate all these inside the wall without issues. I started wondering what everyone was talking about in terms of RG6 QS being a 'bear' to work with in bundles. I think it's all related to bare copper RG6 QS

 

[beelzerob]

I completely agree with Brian....Paladin sealtite tool is awesome. If you've got nothing now, get the whole kit...crimper, cutter, stripper, and flare tool...plus 10 fittings. it's great.

I ran 5 RG59, 2 RG6QS, and 3 Cat5e to every TV location in our house (8 places). The lesson so far? I didn't run enough RG6QS to the great room. I use that for passing the antenna or satellite signal around, and I'm already running short on it. Only shortfall so far.

From my calculations, buying that much cable was cheaper than buying enough HD-cat5 baluns to cover only 2 TV locations.

The only "silent PC" I'm aware of that renders HD signal for a TV is the HD extender from Sage (which isn't a real PC), which are $200 apiece, plus the cost of Sage. Is there something better and cheaper?

 

[tmbrown97]

The smurf (slang name) can be found at Lowes or Home Depot. However, they may have to order the larger diameter sizes (to pass HDMI or DVI pre-connectorized ends through).

One thing I wanted to mention about that, is that I keep seeing more info about RapidRun - for anyone who hasn't seen that, it's a system of cable lengths and ends... ends can be flying leads or wall plates, and they detach, so the head of the cable you're running is about the size of an svideo cable instead of a DVI per say... The fact that you can't make a cable on-site could be an issue, but it would be a nice option if you just need to get a DVI cable through and you just don't have enough room in the conduit for the head...

If anyone has any experience working with that, I'd be curious to hear about it... http://www.rapidrun.com/

 

[sic0048]

The smurf (slang name) can be found at Lowes or Home Depot. However, they may have to order the larger diameter sizes (to pass HDMI or DVI pre-connectorized ends through).

One thing I wanted to mention about that, is that I keep seeing more info about RapidRun - for anyone who hasn't seen that, it's a system of cable lengths and ends... ends can be flying leads or wall plates, and they detach, so the head of the cable you're running is about the size of an svideo cable instead of a DVI per say... The fact that you can't make a cable on-site could be an issue, but it would be a nice option if you just need to get a DVI cable through and you just don't have enough room in the conduit for the head...

If anyone has any experience working with that, I'd be curious to hear about it... http://www.rapidrun.com/

Two words for you.... super expensive!

It is a really neat idea. But the cost is really prohibative IMHO.