Can I do this? (and how)
- Thread starter ahreno
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IVB
Senior Member
You don't need (or want) 5 sources, you only have 4 people. Each person can have a dedicated "source", and you'd never listen to more than 4 CDs concurrently. And as you said, the odds are low that every single person is listening to a different CD, but you may as well build that capability.
Hence, what you want is a 4 source, 5->8 zone system. The reason i'm harping on this is that the Delta 410 (and I think the 1010) allow you to have 4 concurrent & different sources. Going above 4 sources is a PITA, and although doable, is rarely worth it. In your case, it's a total waste as you cannot physically listen to 5 different sources unless 1 person is listening to 2 different songs concurrently.
Hence, what you want is a 4 source, 5->8 zone system. The reason i'm harping on this is that the Delta 410 (and I think the 1010) allow you to have 4 concurrent & different sources. Going above 4 sources is a PITA, and although doable, is rarely worth it. In your case, it's a total waste as you cannot physically listen to 5 different sources unless 1 person is listening to 2 different songs concurrently.
I completely understand what you're saying and I agree. However I don't understand the logic behind making it work.
How do i have an input from each room (5-8 rooms) be available? To me thats 5-8 sources... sorry if i'm being dense.
The Delta 1010 has 10 inputs / 10 outputs which I assume doesn't mean 10 in AND 10 out... any combination of the two?
Do you use any IM programs? I think this could be cleared up in a matter of 2 minutes if we could discuss it... I'm on aim (ahreno) msn ([email protected]) and yahoo (ahreno)... thanks much for putting up with my beginner questions.
What software do you recommend for the main computer?
IVB
Senior Member
your confusion is commonplace, indeed advanced by many in the industry who should know better. It's actually one of my pet peeves, as unlearning this erroneous information is nearly always one of the first things I end up doing on either this forum or the CQC forum.
Rooms are simply places where you listen to music, aka a zone.
In any room, you could choose to listen to a CD, XM, Sirius, FM, AM, or the TV. Those are sources of enjoyment. If you put one of each of those in every single room, and duplicated your entire CD collection 5-8 times (1 per room), then you'd be set. A waste of $$, but you'd be set.
I'll use an example to show you how these work to explain the theory, and ignore budget for a moment. In this world, you use a hardware based switcher, such as the NuVo Concerto/Grand Concerto, to power all your speakers.
What you would do is plug all your "source" equipment into the NuVo:
Sources 1->4) 4 output pairs from 410, 4 output pairs from 1010
Source 5) XM or Sirius tuner
Source 6) FM tuner
To make life simple, let's assign each person their own CD player.
Source 1) ahreno
Source 2) ahreno's master
Source 3) roomate #1
Source 4) roomate #2
Then, run all your speaker wiring to the NuVo:
Zone 1) Bathroom
Z2) Bedroom 1 (ahreno's br in our example)
Z3) Bedroom 2
Z4) Bedroom 3
Z5) Kitchen
Z6) Deck
Now say you're in the Kitchen, and you want to listen to Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here", cuz it's really freaking cool. You use CQC to find that CD, kick it off in CDPlayer#1(aka Source 1). You then press a button that says "Yo CQC - turn Zone 5 on, and tune it to Source 1. Et voila, you got tune-age.
Now your gf gets in the mood by the "Welcome to the Machine" pink floyd lyrics which are totally mesmerizing, and you decide you need to go to the bedroom. Hit the pause button, turn off Zone 5, turn on Zone 2, hit play, et voila Pink Floyd is continuing to play from where you left off since you just paused that source.
Does that all make sense? Do sources and zones sound any clearer?
Note: Many folks do things to avoid using an expensive piece of equipment like the NuVo, but before I go there, you need to understand the basic theory as above. Only then can you think about shortcuts without shooting yourself in the foot. We can get into how to cut corners later, and what you give up by cutting those corners.
IVB
Senior Member
Best place is actually the cocoontech chat room, but i'm getting harassed to join my relatives for xmas dinner. Well technically, i'm getting harassed to go make Xmas dinner. I can't complain too much, I used to be the main cook as I was just better at it than my wife/inlaws, but now i've got it worked down to just Thxgiving, xmas, & a few birthdays. I'll be on the chat room later tonight, although i'm on PST so it may not be until 8pm my time.
I'm on PST as well... shoudl work fine. I'm from Eugene Oregon but up on San Juan Islands near seattle for Xmas... Reply to this thread if you think about it when you jump into the chat so i get an email notification and don't forget
thanks for all your help... time to read through your previous post and see if i can figure it out
Right... I'm with you on that 100%. However the kink to the whole thing comes in when I try to figure out being able to plug an ipod into a wall plate and have it play through the speakers.
So let's say I have six sources as in your example.
Source 1 -> 4) 410 Sound Card
Source 5) XM Radio
Source 6) FM Tuner
Zone 1) Bathroom
Z2) bedroom 1
Z3) bedroom 2
Z4) bedroom 3
Z5) Kitchen
Z6) Deck
So lets say Roommate 1 is in Zone 3 listening to a 30 minute version of Mountain Jam by Allmann brothers
Roommate 2 is in Zone 4 has a skunky smell coming from his room while Redemption Song by bob marley is blaring
The girlfriend is taking a bath listening to that whiny girl music that i so lovingly put up with
Now... the twist... My buddy shows up with his ipod which has the latest Widespread Panic concert that he wants to listen to as we cook up dinner.... So we just take the 1/8" to RCA cable and plug it into the wall in the kitchen right next to the volume control... and voilla it's playing through the kitchen.... And if i'm lucky i can set the porch to play it as well. (playing in multiple zones isn't a necassity at all)
I'm thinking that I may have found a solution to this (thanks to TLCNORM)... AudioSource AMP-100. My thinking is that if i have one of each of those per zone and not have the nuvo at all. Each amp would have Input 2 connected to the 10 output sound card and Input 1 (it automatically switches when a signal is present) connected to a rca input in each room.
The only missing link is what software will drive it and can control multiple outputs like that. I am going to use either an Elk or HAI for home automation / security so preferably something that can interface with that would be great. Also open source with a good dev community / web based control / skinnable would be nice features as well.
So let's say I have six sources as in your example.
Source 1 -> 4) 410 Sound Card
Source 5) XM Radio
Source 6) FM Tuner
Zone 1) Bathroom
Z2) bedroom 1
Z3) bedroom 2
Z4) bedroom 3
Z5) Kitchen
Z6) Deck
So lets say Roommate 1 is in Zone 3 listening to a 30 minute version of Mountain Jam by Allmann brothers
Roommate 2 is in Zone 4 has a skunky smell coming from his room while Redemption Song by bob marley is blaring
The girlfriend is taking a bath listening to that whiny girl music that i so lovingly put up with
Now... the twist... My buddy shows up with his ipod which has the latest Widespread Panic concert that he wants to listen to as we cook up dinner.... So we just take the 1/8" to RCA cable and plug it into the wall in the kitchen right next to the volume control... and voilla it's playing through the kitchen.... And if i'm lucky i can set the porch to play it as well. (playing in multiple zones isn't a necassity at all)
I'm thinking that I may have found a solution to this (thanks to TLCNORM)... AudioSource AMP-100. My thinking is that if i have one of each of those per zone and not have the nuvo at all. Each amp would have Input 2 connected to the 10 output sound card and Input 1 (it automatically switches when a signal is present) connected to a rca input in each room.
The only missing link is what software will drive it and can control multiple outputs like that. I am going to use either an Elk or HAI for home automation / security so preferably something that can interface with that would be great. Also open source with a good dev community / web based control / skinnable would be nice features as well.
IVB
Senior Member
Some big holes in that approach, of course the question is whether these holes are important to you. You now have to resort to the trickery that folks do when they don't get the NuVo.
1) You can only have 1 of the 4 sources hooked up to the amp. This won't work, so you'll have to "bind" the source to the zone, which now means you need 5->8 sources, in a 1:1 relationship with zones. (this is where you got tripped up earlier)
2) You cannot "transfer" a song from one zone to another, as my scenario above showed. You'd have to queue up the CD in the next source/zone.
3) You're limited to 1 local audio input and 1 CD player. No XM/Sirius/FM possible.
4) If your living situation is anything like what mine was when I was single w/roomates, you'll have folks over for drinks once every few days/weeks. You may want to have the same song playing in multiple rooms. You're now forced to do "software synchronization" across zones, and if they're within earshot of each other it will nearly impossible to get them to be in synch. They'll be offset by enough to drive you freaking crazy if you can hear them both.
In the end, I doubt you'd save that much $$ over getting a used NuVo off eBay. I got my concerto for $500, granted that was a steal. They used to be readily available for $750-ish, 1 just sold for $1100 but had 6 keypads and an IR-learning station which isn't really needed.
Plus, using a hardware based approach will be MUCH higher acceptability, no use buying 5-8 of those amps and hating the experience.
1) You can only have 1 of the 4 sources hooked up to the amp. This won't work, so you'll have to "bind" the source to the zone, which now means you need 5->8 sources, in a 1:1 relationship with zones. (this is where you got tripped up earlier)
2) You cannot "transfer" a song from one zone to another, as my scenario above showed. You'd have to queue up the CD in the next source/zone.
3) You're limited to 1 local audio input and 1 CD player. No XM/Sirius/FM possible.
4) If your living situation is anything like what mine was when I was single w/roomates, you'll have folks over for drinks once every few days/weeks. You may want to have the same song playing in multiple rooms. You're now forced to do "software synchronization" across zones, and if they're within earshot of each other it will nearly impossible to get them to be in synch. They'll be offset by enough to drive you freaking crazy if you can hear them both.
In the end, I doubt you'd save that much $$ over getting a used NuVo off eBay. I got my concerto for $500, granted that was a steal. They used to be readily available for $750-ish, 1 just sold for $1100 but had 6 keypads and an IR-learning station which isn't really needed.
Plus, using a hardware based approach will be MUCH higher acceptability, no use buying 5-8 of those amps and hating the experience.
IVB
Senior Member
oh sure it is.
I believe Russound has a keypad with a "local source input" that's designed exactly for this. A quick scan of their site shows the A-Bus systems, and under accessories you'll see a "local input" option. No idea about the cost though.
You could also just run 2RG6 or a cat5 from the kitchen back to the NuVo, and set up Source 5 or 6 as the "local audio device in the kitchen". Then pipe source 5 or 6 to whatever zone you want. The issue with that is that you're locked into using the kitchen for the guest's iPod, but that may not be that big of an issue.
I believe Russound has a keypad with a "local source input" that's designed exactly for this. A quick scan of their site shows the A-Bus systems, and under accessories you'll see a "local input" option. No idea about the cost though.
You could also just run 2RG6 or a cat5 from the kitchen back to the NuVo, and set up Source 5 or 6 as the "local audio device in the kitchen". Then pipe source 5 or 6 to whatever zone you want. The issue with that is that you're locked into using the kitchen for the guest's iPod, but that may not be that big of an issue.
IVB
Senior Member
BTW, I actually do that very thing in my living room; i ran a CAT5 back to my NuVo, so now i can either have an iPod or laptop or whatever. I send that throughout the house, I just did that for a big shindig at my place a few weeks ago.
It was also cool as I sent my Wii audio back to the NuVo, then turned on the LivRm onwall speakers with it, so we got some great bass out of the Wii Tennis/Bowling/Boxing. Sure, geeky fun, but still fun to "feel" that.
It was also cool as I sent my Wii audio back to the NuVo, then turned on the LivRm onwall speakers with it, so we got some great bass out of the Wii Tennis/Bowling/Boxing. Sure, geeky fun, but still fun to "feel" that.
having just the kitchen be an external source isn't ideal... i want each room to be able to utilize external jacks. That way they can plug their dvd player in or their xbox 360 so it can utilize the in ceiling speakers or an ipod (a roommates music more than likely wont all be on my server).
HTD Has keypads that have the aux input as well as being able to connect to a rca wall plate (1 per room) which kind of gives me two inputs in each room... however there is no way
The downfall of this system is no way to control which mp3 player is playing without having some sort of monitor in the room. I would think that using the HTD with the multi output sound card would be a solution?
HTD Has keypads that have the aux input as well as being able to connect to a rca wall plate (1 per room) which kind of gives me two inputs in each room... however there is no way
The downfall of this system is no way to control which mp3 player is playing without having some sort of monitor in the room. I would think that using the HTD with the multi output sound card would be a solution?
IVB
Senior Member
If you must have local audio inputs in each zone, it sounds like your options are:
1) find a Russound-like solution, perhaps the HTD is like that. But it's $$$.
2) Utilize the shorcut method you talked about above, but accept the limitations I outlined. Much less $$$.
Like all of HA, you can do exactly what you want if you're willing to pay for it. If you don't want to pay for it, you'll have to give up some features.
BTW, is this a rental property or do you own it? You could look into stuff like Sonos if it's a rental, much less fxnlty but much less $$, and could very well be "good enough".
1) find a Russound-like solution, perhaps the HTD is like that. But it's $$$.
2) Utilize the shorcut method you talked about above, but accept the limitations I outlined. Much less $$$.
Like all of HA, you can do exactly what you want if you're willing to pay for it. If you don't want to pay for it, you'll have to give up some features.
BTW, is this a rental property or do you own it? You could look into stuff like Sonos if it's a rental, much less fxnlty but much less $$, and could very well be "good enough".
I own it...
It seems like for Amp and keypads I'm going to be spending about $1600... I think my options pretty much boil down to Nuvo or HTD. perhaps its not necessary to have an input in each room... maybe just one in the kitchen (if i can broadcast it to rest of house) IVB... do you still plan to jump into chat?
It seems like for Amp and keypads I'm going to be spending about $1600... I think my options pretty much boil down to Nuvo or HTD. perhaps its not necessary to have an input in each room... maybe just one in the kitchen (if i can broadcast it to rest of house) IVB... do you still plan to jump into chat?
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