Check your batteries: Battery Leaking/Weeping

[Superjer2000]

I only found one post where someone had a similar issue so I am not sure how common this is, but when I was doing some work on my M1 (just bought and installed in November) I noticed that the shelf where the can was sitting had a few spots where the finish was starting to bubble. I checked the ductwork above to make sure there wasn't any water dripping and when I investigated further, I noticed that the bottom of the M1 Can was wet.

Looking closer yet I noticed that the battery (Elk 8aH) was "wet" and was weeping. I couldn't quite identify where the liquid was coming from on the battery.

I used baking soda to neutralize the liquid and replaced the battery with a fresh 8 aH battery I just bought along with a P212s.

I have asked the distributor I bought the battery from if they supply a new one or if I need to go through Elk.

At the end of the day though, it is probably worthwhile to remind folks to double check your batteries every so often. I never had any battery trouble faults or indication that anything was amiss.

 

[tmbrown97]

Same here - my elk battery actually expanded and leaked in the cabinet - not cool. It blew out the sides completely.

 

[gatchel]

Aren't Elk batteries supposed to be "better" than the rest? I thought that was the whole point in paying the extra cash for what you can get for much less in a different brand. Powersonic, etc....

I'd be a little bothered...maybe there is an issue with the charging components, who knows?

 

[chrisexv6]

2 of my Elk batteries have been "damaged" because the voltage dropped too low (Altronix supply without a low battery cutoff built in, apparently), BUT there are no outside indications of this. had them tested with the Elk battery tester and it shows they arent at where they should be (compared to another Elk 8aH that was attached to the main panel that DIDNT hit low voltage).

Im going to replace the 2 from the power supply, and hearing stories like this make me wonder if I should bother going out of my way to get genuine Elk batteries vs something like a Yuasa instead.

 

[jpmargis]

Absolutely no problems with numerous PowerSonic batteries in over thirteen years. Currently trying Enercell (Radio Shack), but too few samples to conclude anything.

 

[Superjer2000]

Aren't Elk batteries supposed to be "better" than the rest? I thought that was the whole point in paying the extra cash for what you can get for much less in a different brand. Powersonic, etc....

I'd be a little bothered...maybe there is an issue with the charging components, who knows?

This is my concern as well (potential issue with charging components). If my second 8AH battery does the same thing then my level of concern will go up dramatically.

 

[gatchel]

Im going to replace the 2 from the power supply, and hearing stories like this make me wonder if I should bother going out of my way to get genuine Elk batteries vs something like a Yuasa instead.

Absolutely no problems with numerous PowerSonic batteries in over thirteen years. Currently trying Enercell (Radio Shack), but too few samples to conclude anything.

I can say that most of the batteries I see (and use) in the field are not Elk batteries. Usually there is not much of a difference for us becuase they are changed out every 3-5 years anyway and most of the time the batteries are to hold over until the generator kicks on. Powersonic is very popular.

 

[chrisexv6]

I can say that most of the batteries I see (and use) in the field are not Elk batteries. Usually there is not much of a difference for us becuase they are changed out every 3-5 years anyway and most of the time the batteries are to hold over until the generator kicks on. Powersonic is very popular.

Yeah Ill be going with Power-Sonic this time around. I guess getting genuine Elk may or may not mean anything (in my case the batteries at least didnt explode, yet anyway, just drawn down too low)

I wonder what alarm power supplies out there have low battery cutoffs built in. Maybe I was just too locked onto Altronix, because I cant find any of theirs that do.

 

[Del91574]

Generally speaking, a battery is just a battery, I can't say I've seen much difference as long as the unit comes from a quality manufacturer and doesn't have a huge shelf time. I stay away from the extremely cheap and questionable ones (IE: those sourced by resellers, such as Radio Shack, or now HD) that are simply restickered units.

Usually the problems with batteries are either over/under charging (and voltage) or having them remain in service too long, both of which end up causing the swelling/splitting problems.

Not many power supplies have built in LBC's as a design criteria....people just won't spend the money for them when they add $20+ to the price of a supply vs. the cost of replacing a battery. Unless you get a dedicated system "smart" supply, typically they're not going to exist and you'll need to supply an add-on unit for LBC.

For the OP, and others with "wet" areas, it sounds like the reliefs on the batteries were the culprit, I'd guess the battery was probably overfilled with gel.

 

[SteveInNorCal]

I've been concerned about battery leakage in my can layout.

I'm setting up a new Elk M1G panel. The M1G, expansion boards, and battery are being installed in an Open House 36 inch tall can. I'm planning on locating the main M1G board near the top of the panel and putting the battery immediately below the control board. Below that will be a Data Hub Bus (M1DBH); an Ethernet board (M1XEP); a Listen-in Interface Board (M1TWA); and a 16 Zone Expander (M1XIN1). The four expansion boards are removed from their plastic housing and will be screwed to the back wall of the can using nylon spacer stand-offs.

I've been concerned about this layout precisely because the battery is above the expansion boards and any leakage would potentially damage or ruin the boards. It seems it would be best to have the battery sitting on the bottom of the can. But doing this makes it difficult to isolate the non-power-limited battery wires from the other power-limited wires. Elk says UL 985 requires a min. 1/4" separation between the two.

Thoughts? Keep the battery close to the Elk main board at top? Or move battery to bottom of can?

Steve

 

[video321]

A battery leaking is always a possibility, but design layout is your decision. For me, a typical can install would have the wires coming in from the top so I prefer to have the panel at the bottom - this would allow the battery to sit on the ledge or a shelf just above it. The reason I prefer to do it that way is to keep the wiring by the control panel clean with only the necessary wires making their way to the bottom. Further, you can use all of the knockouts at the top to bring in and organize your wires.

 

[SteveInNorCal]

A battery leaking is always a possibility, but design layout is your decision. For me, a typical can install would have the wires coming in from the top so I prefer to have the panel at the bottom - this would allow the battery to sit on the ledge or a shelf just above it. The reason I prefer to do it that way is to keep the wiring by the control panel clean with only the necessary wires making their way to the bottom. Further, you can use all of the knockouts at the top to bring in and organize your wires.

Thanks. I'm putting Panduit wire duct with narrow fingers on the left and right sides running top to bottom with a horizontal piece across the top. That way all the wires are neatly contained in the wire duct. The wires are coming in from the top of the can; power supply at the bottom.

 

[Superjer2000]

I must have some very bad luck - I had a second Elk battery go bad last night.  This battery would only be a few months old.  i was woken up by the keypads beeping "low battery" just after midnight when the system failed its 12:00am battery test.  I checked the cans and could hear a gurgling noise coming from the Elk 1280 battery in the main can.  The Elk 1280 in my second can with the P212S wasn't making any noise.
 
Half asleep I disconnected the battery in the main can and transferred the battery from the second can to the main can.  Thinking about it this morning, I'm not sure if I should have put protective eyeware or something on in case the battery decided to explode.
 
I runmost of my components off of the P212S (keypads, M1OVXR etc.) and the keypad only shows 0.3A current draw in the diagnostics for the main board so I am not pushing the battery too hard.
 
The first battery I had just started leaking but never registered as bad with the Elk.  Since then I replaced my system board due to an output 2 that was fried along with an Elk 73 speaker so I think it is unlikely that there is a problem with the charging circuit.  The system is in my furnace room which never gets to be more than ~23 degrees C.
 
I am going to switch to PowerSonic batteries as I am done with Elk's batteries.  Is the PSH-1280-F2 an appropriate equivalent for the Elk 1280?  Also, is there anything I should be checking on that might shed some light on why I have had two batteries go bad in the space of four months?
 
Thanks!

 

[Del91574]

Sounds more like an overcharge condition, so contrary to the M1's keypad, have measurements been taken using a good DMM?

 

[Superjer2000]

Do you mean measuring the output from the elk when trickle charging or measuring the voltage of the overcharged battery?

Thanks for your help!