CQC vs Mainlobby for HA

[Mark S.]

Mark S, thanx for the confimation. How hard is the Stargate plugin to configure? Does it create devices to correspond to the Stargate I/O in Homeseer for you when you setup the plugin?

DavidL-

The Stargate plugin automatically creates all the necessary HS devices for SG's flags, variables, relays, timers, digital inputs, analog inputs, and X-10. The plugin can also control other SG functions, like it's phone board.

Very easy. Great integration. The whole SG/HS/ML setup works great with HS 1.7. I haven't yet had the guts to try it under HS 2.0.

Mark

 

[DavidL]

I can't speak for the Stargate plugin with HS2, but MainLobby and MLHSPlugin and HS2 work just fine. No need to worry. HS2 by itself has been fine for me (since private beta), but obviously not for everyone. They are getting close (IMO).

 

[Steve]

dgeffs,

That's a tough one. I have looked at both and the best advice I can give you is probably to download the products and try them for yourself - they both will work for at least 30 days. I'm in a little different position because I have an Elk M1 supported by both. Here are some high level observations.

Architecture: ML is mostly VB based whereas CQC is built upon an extensible Object Oriented base. ML has a separate server component and designer component. CQC is a unified network distributed system. From a purely architectural perspective I would have to give the nod to CQC.

Design: This is personal. ML is slick, very slick. You can create some really dynamite interfaces. It is flash based so you can have full animation, etc. The weakness the way I see it is you are limited to the supplied graphics, or you need to learn flash and go through some steps to get graphics in there. But the design I think is is ML's biggest strength. CQC is no slacker. The interface designer comes with stock graphics that may be enough, but you can add any graphic you want. It is not flash based and supports only minimal pseudo animation. There is also a ce.net interface so you can use interfaces on pda's, etc. Your choice here is tougher, they are both nice.

ML is more mature, but CQC is playing catchup quickly in large part to its architecture. Both companies have great support. I have dealt with Dean a lot and he never ceases to amaze with with the speed at which he answers questions and writes code.

I am leaning toward CQC myself. A big reason for that is because I wanted a pc based platform to complement my M1. CQC is a more complete all around system (and getting better) while ML is more geared toward interfaces only. If I go with ML, even with their Elk support, I would still need something else and Homeseer is not the product to buy at this point in time.

Like I said though, take a peek for yourself.

 

[DavidL]

Hi Steve,
One "correction"...
You can add any graphic you want to MainLobby as a button or as a background.
You can even add Flash graphics.
You just can't easily add them to the MainLobby Library.

Here's how:
Add a "button" to the Mainlobby "stage". Go into button edit mode. put the path to a jpg in the jpg field. Hit OK.
There, you have a button using any graphic you have handy (or create).

So, you can put any graphic on a MainLobby scene - including Flash based ones. You can't put Flash based ones on just about any other HA application or front end.

You can even add Flash based applications to MainLobby. This is highly dependent on programming conventions used and usually requires you to have some knowledge of Flash to modify the application.

You also can manage graphical assets very easily without knowing any development code at all. And drag / drop / select / rotate / scale / change alpha tint, etc. with a few clicks.

You also didn't mention that for most uses, the MLServer variables, conditional logic, math commands, macro ability, scheduler, etc. make MainLobby a back end for HA as well. Not as robust today as Homeseer or CQC, but good enough for most purposes.

 

[Steve]

Thanks for the correction David. I knew you and Dean would jump in if I messed up.

I probably didn't play with ML as much as I could have mainly because of my choice in needing a more robust HA package. Also, as much as I like the coolness of Flash, as far as I can tell I lose a lot of the functionality on the touch screen beause there is no 'focus'.

Also dgeffs, CQC is hot and heavy into the home theater market and dare I say that is a huge part of their target market. As evident, whichever you choose you will get great support from either David or Dean. Also check out their forums and look around.

 

[dgeffs]

Thanks for a bunch of great information. I must say the decision isn't going to be an easy one. I already own ML (purchased a year ago and never used) and HS2 plus the appropriate plugins. My main issue is time. I am looking for a quick easy solution and it appears that ain't going to happen.

Since I am a VB programmer I could probably write the interface from CQC to SG but again it is a time issue. I think I'll download CQC and ECS and have a look at both. Home Theater is also going to be a big part of my decision since I've had an HTPC for some time and want to integrate everything eventually.

I am running HS2 connected to SG right now but only using it for one event and to send a couple of IR signals to a different zone than the SG IR. I'd like to find a way to get rid of HS since I'm not particularly happy with the new version.

Oh well, I'll keep plugging away at this until the right solution hits me in the face.

Dale

 

[DavidL]

dgeffs,
Since you already have purchased the solution, why don't we work with you to get it going?

What have you done so far to get it configured?

Do you have homeseer up and running? HS 1 or 2?
Do you have the StarGate plugin working?
Do you have Mainlobby installed?
Do you have MainLobby working with Homeseer via MLHSPlugin?

 

[Steve]

Well from a pure financial perspective it makes sense to stick with what you have like David said. OTOH, if you really want to get rid of HS, and you are going to do a lot with HT, CQC is a nice all-in-one-box solution, especially if you could write the stargate driver.

 

[Dean Roddey]

I will certainly be glad to provide assistance on the Stargate driver.

 

[Mark S.]

Dean-

I have been observing the evolution of CQC via posts here on Cocoontech. I see that after all your hard work and persistence, and also due to the problems with HS2, CQC is beginning to look like a potential alternative to HomeSeer.

But IMHO, the one thing that will keep away new users is the lack of plugins/drivers for their existing hardware. Most of us already have heavy investments in favorite hardware - Stargate, Homevision, AB8SS, Caddx, Audiotron and the list goes on and on. At least 99% of us don't have the time and/or skills to write plugins/drivers for our existing hardware just to be able to try a new piece of software.

My point is - I don't see you selling many licenses until these plugins/drivers are in place. It's fine to solicit help from prospective users - but the ball is really in your court to make it happen. Take the initiative to get the Stargate protocol, write a plugin, test it with a second-hand unit (or offer to users to test), then go to the jds-users board and offer CQC.

Mark

 

[jwilson56]

I would also say that there are many Slink-e users out here....

John

 

[Dean Roddey]

My point is - I don't see you selling many licenses until these plugins/drivers are in place. It's fine to solicit help from prospective users - but the ball is really in your court to make it happen. Take the initiative to get the Stargate protocol, write a plugin, test it with a second-hand unit (or offer to users to test), then go to the jds-users board and offer CQC.

It's not a lack of initiative, it's a lack of time. I'm working 12 to 16 hours a day, 7 days a week and haven't had a day off in over 3 years now. And there are various business pressures to do this or that, and we have to choose. I'm sure Stargate is nice but I've got an Omni over there staring a hole in my back, that still needs to be updated for the IP based connection and a number of other devices that are more important than the Stargate for our immediate business needs.

For more DIY type products like Stargate, it's sometimes going to have to come down to DIY type users getting interested in doing the driver, just as a pure practical matter. Paritcularly if they are users of the product, they already have an understanding and a realistic environment in which to test it, neither of which I have. And those types of automation controller products are really time consuming to learn about and set up and play with long enough to have a real world understanding of all it's bumps and warts.

So it's definitely not lack of desire, or caring, or initiative, or wanting your money. It's lack of time, and many competing interests, many of which have potentially much larger payoff for the time spent. That's all. As I said, I'll be happy to help as much as I can, but for the immediate moment, that's all I can do.

If someone has one and they want to loan it to me for a couple months, so that I can just work on it on the side in my so-called spare time, I'll be glad to work on it. But I just can't stop for a week right now and do this driver full time.

 

[dgeffs]

dgeffs,
Do you have homeseer up and running? HS 1 or 2?
Do you have the StarGate plugin working?
Do you have Mainlobby installed?
Do you have MainLobby working with Homeseer via MLHSPlugin?

I've got HS2 up and running and talking to SG although not all devices are setup at the moment. ML is installed but I don't have the plugin working yet with HS2 - it was working with HS1.7.

My issue is one of time just like Dean mentioned in another message. I am looking for the solution that takes the least amount of effort (time) to implement. I purchased these software packages over a year ago and still have not had the time to do anything with ML. While I'm pretty sure I can get everything working together I don't know if running ML, HS2, SG plus all the plugins is the best way to do things. It might be and I may be acting a bit lazy. I made plans to do this a year ago and during that time the world changed a bit and now there may be a better way.

I'm just looking around before I leap at anything although time pressures will probably keep me from completing this for quite some time.

Dale

 

[Dean Roddey]

Probably any serious automation package is going to be a bit time consuming to get your head around. The more flexible the package, and it has to be flexible to compete in this space, the less out of the box functionality it can provide because the permutations that would need to be considered become practically infinite.

So it seems to me, that the question is more, if you are going to put in the time and effort, what package provides the stability, features, and future flexibility you are going to want in order to have made that time investment worth it.

This isn't to say that someone out there hasn't created a very fixed function program that does just what you want. But the odds probably aren't good. Most automation packages have to be effectively big toolkits in order to be able to address the insane number of possible systems and uses of those systems that the customers want.

It's the same probably as in many other types of products. On the one hand customers complain about too much complexity. OTOH, they complain if the product doesn't allow them to do things just the way they want, where everyone wants a different way So we are inevitably pushed towards more complexity and more generality in order to the meet the widely varied requirements of users.

 

[DavidL]

dgeffs,
If you have HS2 and Stargate plugin running, and have Stargate devices populating HS2 devices, you are 80% home already.
Follow the excellent installation instructions for MLHSplugin. Our good friend BSR and the developer Krumpy did a nice job on the install documentation that always gets thumbs up from people that have used the docs to setup the plugin(s).

High level:
Download the MLHSPlugin from Homeseer2 Updater (web page)
This will install the Homeseer side of the plugin pair. The other side gets installed as a plugin in MainLobby Server (MLServer). Install MLServer (download from Cinemar website). Install MLHSPlugin in MLServer. Enable the MLHSPlugin in Homeseer. Subscribe to device A1 (or others).

Install MainLobby client on same PC as MLServer. Enable MLServer and use all default ports. When you launch ML client, make sure you see it in the MLServer Client configuration window. It should say localhost. Now the client and MLServer are talking to each other.

Homeseer MLHSPlugin should now also be talking to MLServer MLHSPlugin. The Homeseer side should show "connected".

Add a button on MainLobby client stage. Edit the button. In the label field, add {{mlhsplugin_A1_value}} Click OK, Click Launch, Click Save. You should now see whatever value is assigned to A1 in Homeseer (could be Off, On, or a numeric, or text, or whatever). Go into MLServer and click on the Variables button. You should see the A1 variable and it's value. That value should be same as what is showing in MainLobby client button.

Let us know how it goes!!
Then the fun begins while you get absorbed into building your neat scenes that look great, meet your individual needs for function, navigation and style. It gets addicting where you will want to spend the time. That is if you enjoyed Lincoln Logs or Erector sets as a kid