ELK<>ALC

[felixrosbergen]

Anybody know how the ALC scene switch work within ELK? The M1-XSP documentation mentions Node1 for them.

Is Branch 1 Node one the same as ALC adress 1? I know the scene switches can learn the scene and set them without the help from the ELK, but i want to be able to monitor the scene switch button to activate other things as well.

Can somebody confirm that ELK can indeed only talk to ALC scene switches if they are on branch 1? This woudl be an important thing to know for ALC/ELK users since it may change the planning method for ALC.

The ELK M1XSP documentation is NOT clear on this stuff at all.

 

[Neurorad]

I've seen that written several times, that scene switches can only be used with branch 1. I've read it both from Elk, and from OnQ-ALC docs. And it's in the setnetpro.com alc training videos.

I hope they fix that soon. What a giant glitch.

 

[charliebarns]

I've seen that written several times, that scene switches can only be used with branch 1. I've read it both from Elk, and from OnQ-ALC docs. And it's in the setnetpro.com alc training videos.

I hope they fix that soon. What a giant glitch.

I was positive I saw a post from TS saying that's no longer the case. I'm going digging...

edit

well I found some info, although I don't know if that answers the question really. We need TS to chime in...

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...st&p=104922

 

[felixrosbergen]

charlie: you're a better digger than i am. I started thrawling through the 32 page thread as well and somehow missed it.

Actually looks like TS is indeed confirming what we suspect...

For me this means using an extra pair of conductors from the upstairs scene switches to the downstairs wire room.

If i would have know i would have put all the scene switches on a seperate hub and have that be the only thing connected to branch 1. At the moment it's a bit late because when i have a scene switch and regular ALC dimmers in the same place i connected them all to the same TX= and TX-. At least i have some adresses available on branch 1.

The M1 XSP documentation is very vague on how to use the scene switch. In the adress table it switch from Branch 1 /Light 1 type notation to Branch 1 / Node 1 / SS2 type notation.

What I suspect is that through elk you would define a 'light' for each scene switch button so you can monitor and take action when that button is pressed. Funny thing is that IF that is true they only show SS2, SS3, SS4 for each node. What happens to button 1? Perhaps the original adress is for Button 1 and the 'extended adresses' are for the other buttons. i.e If the scene switch is ID 7 on Branch 1 then Button 1 would be 7 and buttons 2,3 and 4 would be 147. 148 and 149. I'm going to try and test this on sunday.

Current I have 2 scene switches installed at adress 7 and 11 on branch 1. Hopefully somebody can chime in to let me know how to monitor these buttons with the ELK since i want some to act as inputs as other things as well (change temp, turn of TV (via CQC) etc.



I'm hoping that once ELK can monitor the buttons that CQC can pick this up as well. This would essentially give me general purpose pushbutton throughout the house to do whatever I want as long as ELK and/or CQC can control it. Maybe i'm just dreaming.

 

[felixrosbergen]

Actually found some time to test this....it is indeed as i suspected and described in my post above.

I'm thinking the scene switches on branch 1 issue is not an ALC issue but more an ELK issue in how they adress the switches. It's too bad because it complicated the wiring home, requiring additional homeruns for scene switches.

Hopefully TS can confirm if this affects those that don't plan to control their ALC install with ELK. But i suppose even for those people it would be good practice to make their install 'ELK ready'.

 

[TonyStewart]

charlie: you're a better digger than i am. I started thrawling through the 32 page thread as well and somehow missed it.

Actually looks like TS is indeed confirming what we suspect...

For me this means using an extra pair of conductors from the upstairs scene switches to the downstairs wire room.

If i would have know i would have put all the scene switches on a seperate hub and have that be the only thing connected to branch 1. At the moment it's a bit late because when i have a scene switch and regular ALC dimmers in the same place i connected them all to the same TX= and TX-. At least i have some adresses available on branch 1.

The M1 XSP documentation is very vague on how to use the scene switch. In the adress table it switch from Branch 1 /Light 1 type notation to Branch 1 / Node 1 / SS2 type notation.

What I suspect is that through elk you would define a 'light' for each scene switch button so you can monitor and take action when that button is pressed. Funny thing is that IF that is true they only show SS2, SS3, SS4 for each node. What happens to button 1? Perhaps the original adress is for Button 1 and the 'extended adresses' are for the other buttons. i.e If the scene switch is ID 7 on Branch 1 then Button 1 would be 7 and buttons 2,3 and 4 would be 147. 148 and 149. I'm going to try and test this on sunday.

Current I have 2 scene switches installed at adress 7 and 11 on branch 1. Hopefully somebody can chime in to let me know how to monitor these buttons with the ELK since i want some to act as inputs as other things as well (change temp, turn of TV (via CQC) etc.



I'm hoping that once ELK can monitor the buttons that CQC can pick this up as well. This would essentially give me general purpose pushbutton throughout the house to do whatever I want as long as ELK and/or CQC can control it. Maybe i'm just dreaming.

I am not sure I agree that this is a huge glitch. Elk has more support in their software than any other controller and they are adding more devices often. With their efforts to be compatible with so many devices, controller/interface memory becomes an issue. They do not have an unlimited amount of space to keep adding things. So, let's work through why I say branch one scene swithces is adequate.

Always plan a lighting install with grouping lighting loads into logical groups that you want act on as groups. All lights in the theater should be in the same group and maybe even in the same housecode. If you layout your plan early then it will serve you better as you setup and operate the system.

In addition, you can select to "Hide" the names of any light load or scene switch if you don't want it to show on the keypad. In the case of a scene switch it is used as an input not an output, so hiding the names makes some sense. If hidden, then who cares which branch they appear on.

Then comes the wiring strategy. Hind sight is 20-20, but laying out the cable runs to scene switches should be done as a different Cat5 run than lights.

However, if the scene switches are on the Cat5 runs with other branches, you still have a couple of unused Cat5 conductors in any run, so use them to routhe the scene switches back to the panel and at the panel combine them onto branch one. No matter how tyou wire the lights and scene switches, if you used Cat5 you have some spare wires to use to route scene switches (I hope).
\
Hope this helps
TS

 

[felixrosbergen]

TS:

Yes...it makes total sense now...to bad i already crimped the cat5's all together and go the wall plates back on :mellow:

For the remaining scene switches I'll be using a spare set of conductors in the cat 5 or running a seperate cat5 so i don't mess up the color coding scheme. Since i have conduit running to all light switches it would be easy to run some extra cat5 and correct it...but I'm lazy.

If i were to start over i woudl think it would just leave Branch 1 empty and completely reserve it for Scebe swichtes unless i expected to run out of adresses.