Elk and outdoor motion sense feeding to a Lutron RA2?

[wkearney99]

Anyone care to enlighten me on how I'd connect outside motion sensors to an Elk to get conditional programming for Lutron Radio RA2 lights?
 
As in, I want to use the Elk to monitor the sensors, then check the RA2 keypad to see if a 'Motion' mode is set.  If it's set then send a lights on signal to a number of RA2 switches.  Then, if no further motion is detected within a given interval, send an off signal to the same number of RA2 switches.
 
I'm unclear on what outdoor sensors to use, and how they'd be wired.  The sensors are not near the light fixtures, as those are higher up on the building under the eaves.  Which would be a bad place to have motion sensors.  So I'm figuring the sensors will be lower on the house (still about 12' off the ground) but in a path better suited to detect the kind of motion I'd want monitored.
 
But what sensors should I be considering?  How are they wired?  I'm assuming some sort of low voltage wire will go to the Elk, but what about power to the sensors themselves?  Is that also coming up via low voltage wire?
 
I ask because I've got to get the exterior boxes installed and wire run to them within the next 2 weeks before the spray foam folks do their thing...

 

[dgage]

The first step is to pick out your motion sensors as your house determines the type of sensors you will need.  Here is a link to Residential and Outdoor sensors at Optex, which makes good outdoor motion sensors.  You will need to pay attention to the height on some of these sensors as many are designed for 5' high mounting.  Also, you will need to figure out the distance and patterns you need to cover your yard well.  Also, if you will be trying to track motion during the day, an IR motion facing south may not be as effective if the sensor is hit by direct sun so then you'd look for a microwave sensor.  And finally, if you have dogs, you may need to get a dual mode sensor to reduce false alarms.
 
http://www.optexamerica.com/security-products?f[0]=field_product_application_list%3AResidential&f[1]=field_product_location%3AOutdoor
 
The next step will be to wire them up to your Elk, which as you surmise requires power as well as the alarm trigger connection.  Assuming you aren't exceeding 1000 ft., you should be able to use 22/4 to power your motion detector and connect to your alarm.  Realize that if you are using your Elk to power your motion detector that you take into account all of the items your Elk is powering.  Looking at the LX-402 linked below, it has instructions for connecting the wires and also shows the current draw to be 25 mA at 12vDC.  Alternatively, you could power a bunch of motion sensors from a separate 12vDC transformer and use some sort of distribution block to wire the power 2 wires to the motions and the other 2 of the 22/4 wires would connect to the Elk into one of your inputs.
 
http://www.optexamerica.com/sites/default/files/resource-uploads/LX-402%2C%20802%20manual.pdf
 
Finally, you will need to interface with the Lutron RadioRa 2 system.  I do that using CQC, which has a RadioRa 2 driver.  If you aren't using that, you will need to send a command to make a light turn on.  Luckily, the protocol is pretty straight forward and I have linked the Integration Protocol document below.  Looking at page 120, the command you will need to send is similar to #OUTPUT,20,1,100<CR><LF>, which sets dimmer 20 to 100%.  To test you can use a telnet program (I use Putty) to send commands and also to see the other messages that come across the Lutron RadioRa 2 wire.  You will just need to know the IP address of the RadioRa 2 Master controller and have setup an integration username and password in the RadioRa 2 Essentials software.
 
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/040249.pdf
 
Hope this helps.
 
David

 

[Neurorad]

Thanks for detailing that.

 

[Del91574]

Optex also makes very reliable wireless PE beams that use a transmitter of your choice. Microwave only detectors are very prone to false alarm.

 

[gannhometech]

I agree that beams would be much more reliable in regard to false alarms but
wouldn't the trade off be a limited ability to cover a large area like a yard?

What are some possible ideas for mounting and locating beams to cover an open area like a front or back yard? It would be fairly easy to cover an entry way into a fenced yard for example but what about an unfenced space and what of the possibility of jumping the fence. I guess you could crisscross a couple pairs of beams diagonally across the yard?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I agree that beams would be much more reliable in regard to false alarms but wouldn't the trade off be a limited ability to cover a large area like a yard? What are some possible ideas for mounting and locating beams to cover an open area like a front or back yard? It would be fairly easy to cover an entry way into a fenced yard for example but what about an unfenced space and what of the possibility of jumping the fence. I guess you could crisscross a couple pairs of beams diagonally across the yard?

http://www.dakotaalert.com/catb2b1/product_info.php?cPath=51&products_id=143

 

[wkearney99]

http://www.dakotaalert.com/catb2b1/product_info.php?cPath=51&products_id=143

Don't really have a linear span across which to position sensors.

 

[wkearney99]

The first step is to pick out your motion sensors as your house determines the type of sensors you will need.  Here is a link to Residential and Outdoor sensors at Optex, which makes good outdoor motion sensors.  You will need to pay attention to the height on some of these sensors as many are designed for 5' high mounting.  Also, you will need to figure out the distance and patterns you need to cover your yard well.  Also, if you will be trying to track motion during the day, an IR motion facing south may not be as effective if the sensor is hit by direct sun so then you'd look for a microwave sensor.  And finally, if you have dogs, you may need to get a dual mode sensor to reduce false alarms.
 
http://www.optexamerica.com/security-products?f[0]=field_product_application_list%3AResidential&f[1]=field_product_location%3AOutdoor
 
The next step will be to wire them up to your Elk, which as you surmise requires power as well as the alarm trigger connection.  Assuming you aren't exceeding 1000 ft., you should be able to use 22/4 to power your motion detector and connect to your alarm.  Realize that if you are using your Elk to power your motion detector that you take into account all of the items your Elk is powering.  Looking at the LX-402 linked below, it has instructions for connecting the wires and also shows the current draw to be 25 mA at 12vDC.  Alternatively, you could power a bunch of motion sensors from a separate 12vDC transformer and use some sort of distribution block to wire the power 2 wires to the motions and the other 2 of the 22/4 wires would connect to the Elk into one of your inputs.
 
http://www.optexamerica.com/sites/default/files/resource-uploads/LX-402%2C%20802%20manual.pdf
 
Finally, you will need to interface with the Lutron RadioRa 2 system.  I do that using CQC, which has a RadioRa 2 driver.  If you aren't using that, you will need to send a command to make a light turn on.  Luckily, the protocol is pretty straight forward and I have linked the Integration Protocol document below.  Looking at page 120, the command you will need to send is similar to #OUTPUT,20,1,100<CR><LF>, which sets dimmer 20 to 100%.  To test you can use a telnet program (I use Putty) to send commands and also to see the other messages that come across the Lutron RadioRa 2 wire.  You will just need to know the IP address of the RadioRa 2 Master controller and have setup an integration username and password in the RadioRa 2 Essentials software.
 
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/040249.pdf
 
Hope this helps.
 
David

 
Yes, that does help, quite a bit.  
 
I'm having a local Elk dealer come out on Monday to review the setup and presumably give me an estimate. The fact that the sensors will only need a 22/4 connection greatly reduced my immediate concern of getting a wire installed for them on the outside.  
 
 All of the sensor locations are no more than 85' total wire distance from their position to the controls (including all ups/downs/arounds).  
 
The contractor wants to start foaming the walls and I've got to get some sort of wire in there before that happens.  
 
For sake of 'future proofing' I'll just put a 3/4" low voltage conduit there and run that back to the planned location for the Elk gear.  This way as long as I don't need AC line voltage I can just run whatever's necessary.  I'll start with planning for a 22/4 in there. 
 
Here's a rough sketch of where I'm considering sensor placements:
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:534]
 
The point isn't security so much as convenience.  I want to trigger the sensors when legit activity could benefit from the light.  I'm not really trying to set it up to scare people away.  Otherwise I'd have to start adding a number of other sensors in places that would look hideous stuck all over the building.  
 
That and when we plan the outdoor lighting I may add some sensors out along the fence line pointing back in toward the house.  At that point I could also set up a beam.  

 

[dgage]

I know this is an automation site but before I got into this, I got tired of less than stellar exterior motion lights. I purchased the following and have them on the corners of my house and with some LED flood lights, they put out a ton of light and the motion detection is great. The 360 motion sensor underneath has been flawless and so has the long rAnge one but the direct underneath sensor is what sets this light apart.

http://www.amazon.com/RAB-Lighting-STL360HBW-Stealth-Sensor/dp/B000W3YI26

Just giving an alternative solution.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Just rig a 120vac coil relay to that and you have contact closures to your system as well!

 

[wkearney99]

I know this is an automation site but before I got into this, I got tired of less than stellar exterior motion lights. I purchased the following and have them on the corners of my house and with some LED flood lights, they put out a ton of light and the motion detection is great. The 360 motion sensor underneath has been flawless and so has the long rAnge one but the direct underneath sensor is what sets this light apart.

http://www.amazon.com/RAB-Lighting-STL360HBW-Stealth-Sensor/dp/B000W3YI26

Just giving an alternative solution.

 
Trouble is the place where the spots will be mounted is up under the eaves, a good 25' up from the ground.  I'm guessing most sensors aren't going to work effectively trying to focus on a 10' path next to the house from 25' up in the air.  That and adjusting the sensor would be less than convenient.  As it is I'll have to use an extension pole to change the bulbs.
 
But more importantly I want separate control over the sensors from the lights.  Few of the combo spot/sensors I've ever seen did a straightforward job of this.  Most you end up doing some sort of on-off-on dance to get the sensor mode changed.  Not. ever. again.  I hate those.

 

[dgage]

I understand and would have agreed with you up until I researched and found these motion lights. Motion and lighting is all they do and all I can say is I'm impressed. The 360 down facing could handle all motion in the immediate vicinity and then you could aim the long range one a little farther out. But I also understand wanting them automated but sometimes simpler is better (or maybe good enough on this forum).

 

[wkearney99]

Heh, on this forum?  Nah, we're all about complicating the hell out of it.  
 
I hear ya, and you make good points for it.  Glad they're working for you.  I may come to regret going the more complicated route, but I'll still have the spots up there to be replaced later, if need be.