ELK M1 Lighting - WiFi?

[Mark S.]

I have been using ELK M1 to control my old Lightolier X-10 switches/dimmers for many years now.  I have dozens of them.  I have used up most of my spares over the years, so I'm starting to think about what to use next.  I've tried Z-Wave and I am not impressed - I've found it to be unreliable and flaky compared to even X-10, at least via Homeseer.  UPB is on my list, but that seems to be getting as long-in-the-tooth as X-10.  I've recently been paying more attention to WiFi lighting switches and modules (Shelly, Sonoff, Kasa, etc.) - looks promising and inexpensive, and seems like "the future".
 
But I have a few questions about WiFi lighting modules and switches:
1) How reliable is it?  Missed signals?  
2) Will they last for decades like my X-10 stuff?
3) Is it two way for awareness of on/off/dim?  i.e., if I switch locally, does the controller know that?
4) I prefer ELK to run my lighting schedules - been rock solid that way.  Homeseer is too flaky and subject to crashes and file corruption - it's happened way too often - I just don't trust it for my routine lighting schedules and events.  But I understand that ELK only directly supports X-10, UPB, and ALC.  Is there any way that ELK can run WiFi lighting?
 
Thanks for any help.

 

[ano]

I would not recommend WiFi as a home automation protocol.  Sure, for a few devices it is fine.  Every person has WiFi in their house, so these device makers put it in stuff, its cheap, and there, poof you have home automation.  Just about every other one is better, whatever the ELK supports.  I use Zigbee, and UPB because HAI supports it. Don't know much about Z-Wave except it is controlled and licensed by one company. I guess UPB is also.  
 
If ELK doesn't support something, look for a "bridge."  Like here is a WiFi-Zigbee bridge,  https://sonoff.tech/product/smart-home-security/zbbridge
or here is a Zigbee - ZWave bridge https://medium.com/the-monolith/transform-a-raspberrypi-into-a-universal-zigbee-and-z-wave-bridge-b686cdd1849e
 
Also, Home Assistant can talk to about everything, so it can be a bridge. 

 

[pete_c]

Been testing WiFi modded with Tasmota firmware switches here and in house #2.
 
Here wishing my OmniPro 2 panel would speak MQTT.   
 
Per @ano's post found this tonight...
 
BeagleBone Green X10 to MQTT Bridge with CM15A
 
With the above I could have the OmniPro 2 panel talk X10 and with the device above convert X10 commands to Mosquitto commands to Tasmota WiFi devices.

 

[Mark S.]

BeagleBone Green X10 to MQTT Bridge with CM15A
 
With the above I could have the OmniPro 2 panel talk X10 and with the device above convert X10 commands to Mosquitto commands to Tasmota WiFi devices.

Interesting.  Thanks for finding this, Pete.   So I guess it may be possible, but it looks like a lot of work.  But of course it seems rather complicated, and reliability would be my concern, as well as a return path to notify ELK of local/tasmota switching.
 
I should get up to speed on MQTT - new to me.

 

[pete_c]

Still using my OmniPro 2 panel and mostly UPB switches in one home.  The panel runs the heartbeat of the home.  The automation software (Homeseer) and Home assistant adds a level of automation to the set up.
 
Never really liked wireless and now trying it in house #2.  All of the Wifi devices have been converted to Tasmota / Espurna devices.  They can work independent of any software.  WiFi use was never a big thing here and a couple of years ago switched from Ubiquiti to Ruckus WAPs.
 
If you are comfortable with what you have been using then I would not change it.
 
X10 here via Volp TW-523 dual phased emulation works fine here with my X10.  My in wall UPB switches continue to work fine too.  
 
The WiFi switches are miniature computers made for iOT.  I control them locally using Tasmota firmware and MQTT enabled software like HomeSeer and Home Assistant.  They are rock solid for me with local control but I cannot manage them with the OmniPro 2 panel.

 

[TrojanHorse]

I can’t speak specifically to WiFi lighting as there are many different devices and manufacturers. I don’t use any. But if you have an Elk, have you looked into an ISY? It allows control of network devices which could work for WiFi.

I’m using my ISY from Universal Devices which integrates with the Elk to control Insteon lighting and many other things. Lately there’s been difficulty finding stock of Insteon devices but hopefully that will pass.

You didn’t mention the ISY so if you’re unfamiliar it is certainly worth a look.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sic0048]

I have started using wifi lighting in my house (flashed with Tasmota - a third party firmware available for some devices that improves the security and usability of IOT wifi devices).  I use to have a couple of switches on the Centralite Jetstream system, but not many because of the expense.  However, the fact that I can buy a nice multi-button wifi switch for less than $20 each is pretty appealing vs $100-150 that I paid for Jetstream stuff. 
 
Let's face it, wifi is going to be a lot more reliable than x10 ever was.  You can argue that wifi isn't as reliable as a dedicated "lighting protocol" system would be (like Jetstream, Insteon, etc), but that isn't really true if your wifi network is robust.  If you don't have reliable wifi coverage across the entire house, then you will obviously have issues with wifi switches in those low signal areas.  
 
My wifi switches have been 100% reliable.  Of course they don't need wifi to function like a regular switch, but need wifi if you are trying to control them remotely.  Even so, the "remote/smart" functionality of these wifi switches has been 100%.  I also have some wifi plugs (the kind of self contained wifi device that you plug into a regular outlet to make it "smart") and that reliability has been lower.  Out of perhaps 20 plugs, two have stopped working.  I really need to look at them and see if it is a firmware issue or what, but it hasn't been a big priority because these particular devices aren't important.  The plugs still work locally (when you press the physical button on them), but the "remote" functionality of them stopped working and they don't appear on the network. I don't believe it is a wifi connection issue however, I think the firmware got corrupted somehow.  

 

[Mark S.]

I have started using wifi lighting in my house (flashed with Tasmota - a third party firmware available for some devices that improves the security and usability of IOT wifi devices).  
 
My wifi switches have been 100% reliable.

Good vote of confidence on reliability.   I was worried about the quality of the inexpensive Chinese switches and plugs.  I'd rather buy from an established company like Leviton who will stand by their product (sure they cost more), but it looks like you cannot flash the Leviton devices.
 
What do you use for remote control?

 

[sic0048]

Good vote of confidence on reliability.   I was worried about the quality of the inexpensive Chinese switches and plugs.  I'd rather buy from an established company like Leviton who will stand by their product (sure they cost more), but it looks like you cannot flash the Leviton devices.
 
What do you use for remote control?

 
I use CQC as my automation core.  I use MQTT as the protocol to connect the Tasmota flashed wifi devices and CQC.  
 
I will say that Tasmota has the ability to have a lot of programming/automation built into it (define "groups" etc).  For example, in my house we have a "great room" with enough ceiling lights that they are on two different sets of 3way switches.  I have programmed Tasmota to turn on all the ceiling lights anytime any of the switches are used. Another example is programming buttons on the wall switches to turn on other devices.  For example you can press a button on my kitchen wall switches to turn on/off the under-counter LED lighting (which are plugged into a wifi plug).  Same thing in the Den - press a button on the wall switch and it turns on/off some lamps next to the sofa which are plugged into a wifi plug.  I also have holiday candles currently set in all of my front windows and all the wifi plugs are assigned to a single group.  This way I can trigger them all on/off at the same time by triggering the group instead of the individual plugs.  By programming this into the Tasmota firmware the "core" functionality works all the time, regardless of the status of my automation system. 
 
I do use the automation system to trigger lights based on time of day and other triggers (like home alarm status).  But the core lighting system works without needing the automation system.