Embedded vs PC vs embedded PC for HA controller

[DavidL]

Correct Dean,
But, there isn't an "auto configurator" so to speak. You have to know what drivers you want and add them. And what services you need and then add them....and on and on. Takes a fair amount of time to build and then test. And, you have to "really know" what it is that you do need (what your hardware and applications need). Not for a one off PC unless you like to gadget with this kind of thing. My recollection is that you can download all of the tools and files and build an image that lives for 6 months and then dies for testing purposes. Or, you can purchase the development license and buy run time licenses at less than XPPro, but "more than Linux" pricing.

No reason why it can't do media, it just takes a fair number of those dependency files that will bloat up the XPe image.

 

[Ranger Digital]

Convergent Living runs on a fanless linux embedded setup. Course you have to use THEIR units. But works like a champ. and very flexible.

Oh no...you sound like me and we're both in danger of becoming as one dimensional as a certain poster with an affiliation with the company that rhymes with train slobby...

I hope I dont become one dimensional but I am sure would feel i should if i worked for a company of course. I like mainlobby actually. I dont have a complete handle on it but I like it. Still not sure on a customer install though where I would be forced to update manually all the time., reboot, etc.

 

[DavidL]

Convergent Living runs on a fanless linux embedded setup. Course you have to use THEIR units. But works like a champ. and very flexible.

Oh no...you sound like me and we're both in danger of becoming as one dimensional as a certain poster with an affiliation with the company that rhymes with train slobby...

I hope I dont become one dimensional but I am sure would feel i should if i worked for a company of course. I like mainlobby actually. I dont have a complete handle on it but I like it. Still not sure on a customer install though where I would be forced to update manually all the time., reboot, etc.

Ranger, don't worry, when you properly setup the system and Windows, you don't have to.

 

[AnthonyZ]

yes, anthonyz, it is easy to get one dimensional. The more time spent with one product, the more the comfort zone and product expertise that can be brought to bare when it is appropriate. Thankfully, there are several of us "one dimensional" forum participants that bring together most of the current viable offerings to one forum for those that are just coming aboard with HA / media control, or are on the fence with next steps.

Please take no offense. I'm just having a laugh. There is little doubt that I am every bit the "one trick pony" myself. There isn't a one of us here who is as"thin" as, say, Rudy Guliani.

 

[IVB]

I'm glad (CQC rules) that I'm (CQC is cool) not like (CQC sends everyone else to school) that...

 

[AnthonyZ]

I stand corrected...

 

[Ranger Digital]

davidl, I am sure there are some tweaks that can be done with my ML set up. As you know, I am by no means an expert. I still have to reboot everyother time I use musiclobby to read lyrics. When I go back to the main menu, it locks up after playing the song i requested lyrics on. I must reboot anytime there is an update, unless there is something new. Anyhoot, not to rob the thread and no need to provide a solution here as there is a forum for these type of issues.

Mainlobby is cool, I must say.

 

[CollinR]

You can also build XP / XPe hybrids for DIY stuff, M$ is not too crazy about this but it's totally possible. I guess you could do it commerically too but you would need 2 licenses on the same PC and thats dumb.

 

[Photon]

Has anyone experimented with nLite to prepare a stripped down XP configuration? I have no personal experience with it, but it seems like it might make a small enough installation footprint to make it worthwhile. I have it on my todo list, but it is way toward the bottom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLite

 

[CollinR]

Playing with it now, my biggest trouble is getting XP to boot from my CF card. If you can go DOM and for future proofing you might consider a SATA version, all my IDE ports are on a seperate controller from the southbridge so mine boots through the RAID utility which seems to waste 10-15 seconds of boot time.

 

[DavidL]

davidl, I am sure there are some tweaks that can be done with my ML set up. As you know, I am by no means an expert. I still have to reboot everyother time I use musiclobby to read lyrics. When I go back to the main menu, it locks up after playing the song i requested lyrics on. I must reboot anytime there is an update, unless there is something new. Anyhoot, not to rob the thread and no need to provide a solution here as there is a forum for these type of issues.

Mainlobby is cool, I must say.

Ranger, I don't consider the points you make to be off topic with this thread so, I'll continue (with thread in mind).

If one builds and treats a PC as a desktop computer, then they will have a desktop computer experience (virus, patches, reboots, driver issues, - the stuff most people think about).

When you treat the PC as an automation controller (like the way manufacturing plants do, like the way amusement parks do, like the way a HA pro does), then the PC is just as reliable as any embedded controller (because it essentially IS an embedded controller). Choice of hardware (issues like fanless, solid state memory, adaquete cooling / ventillation, redundant power supply, RAID, etc) and OS (XP embedded, Linux, etc.) and choice of software (MainLobby, Homeseer, CQC, a short list of others), and a build process (PC settings, security proxy settings, etc) and infrastructure (UPS, hardware firewall, etc) and most importantly, the mindset that it is built, tested, certified, installed, protected from any external forces and LEFT ALONE.

You may not have gotten your personal system to the "Left Alone" stage, and that is one of the most critical. If you do mess with the system, and change hardware, and update drivers, and do patches without going through the certification process (your's as a dealer of integrated systems), then you won't see what an "embedded" PC controller can do.

Elk or HAI panels are embedded controllers (as one example), and once in a while a firmware update is required (usually associated with a hardware change) and it then requires to be rebooted. But, we are always cautioned NOT to update firmware unless there is a compelling reason to do that (ie: Leave it Alone).

Don't surf the web from an automation controller. Don't install non essential software on it. Put it in the equipment closet and lock it. Keep kids out of the equipment room. Don't provide access to it to anyone that doesn't require access. Provide remote monitoring capability for maintenance. If you are using hard drives, they WILL fail. Use Raid so you have some grace period if that happens, use email monitoring if that does happen, do hardware swaps as one does on automotive wear items (brakes / tires) on a preventive basis. or go solid state for higher levels of reliability.

The problem with PCs is that they can do so much more than typical embedded computers, so we tend to do just that. And, with each deviation from core automation controller purposes, places the system into reliability jeopardy. If the system is unreliable, the system's integrator (pro or DIY) chose it to be that way.

 

[Timoh]

It sound similar to some other commercial products I have seen. And TinyXP (which is a illegal shrunk down version). Most of the products I've seen can only seem to strip XP down to 400-500MB which is still kinda hefty. But then again if you do 1 GB flash and 1 GB ram you'd be OK.

XPe by contrast (at the least the HP version for the t5700) is ~200MB.

The interesting thing that someone threw out at me was ReactOS which is a windows clone. Not due to be finished until 2009 or 2010 or something like that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactos http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html

Tim

 

[Timoh]

You touched on a good point... The "Leave it Alone" factor. Thinking back to when I swapped my HA PC for a small low-power fully no-moving part device, I was at the stage where I was going to leave it alone. And I do! I tinker and test on another platform. When I'm ready I make the fully tested change on my HA PC.

I don't browse from it, I don't change hardware, I don't run any other apps.

In thinking about the "leave it alone" factor, this is probably why I've had so much success with and am so happy with it. I have left it alone for months now.

Tim

 

[Waynedb]

Has anyone experimented with nLite to prepare a stripped down XP configuration? I have no personal experience with it, but it seems like it might make a small enough installation footprint to make it worthwhile. I have it on my todo list, but it is way toward the bottom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLite

I am running a nlite trimmed down version on a nano-itx board I use for an in-wall touch screen. I only cut it down a little bit and did not go crazy, I think my install was 898mb after turning off virtual memory. I only set it up this weekend so I will see how well it works out in time.

 

[Ranger Digital]

DavidL, once again VERY good points!!!!!!!