fire alarm system in barn

[mikemehak]

I want to install a fire alarm system in my barn.

I'm ordering an ElkM1 because I will use this to automate my front gate, etc...

I will then setup the ElkM1 to phone and email us upon activation of the fire alarm. As well as sound an alarm in the house and alarm at the barn. I would also like it to trigger a strobe light on the barn roof so the fire department knows where to head. It would be vice versa if the fire was triggered in the house zone.

I would like to put 4-5 smoke detectors in the barn.

-1 will be located in a tack room. It is heated, relatively low dust levels
-3 will be located along the barn isle. It is insulated and when the horses are inside, the temp never really drops below freezing, if so, only by a few degrees. During the day it is possible for it to match outside temperatures. it can be a relatively dusty environment at times (the barn is 100' long, it's got an isle way down the middle with stalls on either side)
-1 will be located in the hay storage area off to the side. This area is isolated from the rest of the barn. It matches outside temps and is very dusty.

At the barn I will putting a siren and some sort of strobe.

The barn is approx 300' from the house.

What type of smoke detectors should I use in this environment. Will heat sensors react fast enough? Faster?

I would like be notified ASAP, although I imagine that is everyones goal

Do I run cat5 to the barn and put some sort of hub with it's own power, or do I run cat5 for the smoke detectors and then speaker wire for the siren and something else for the strobe and connect it straight to the elk.

I don't need to monitor anything else with the elk such as glass break, etc...

What's the safest, most economical way to do this?

Thanks, Mike

 

[nightwalker]

I want to install a fire alarm system in my barn.

I'm ordering an ElkM1 because I will use this to automate my front gate, etc...

I will then setup the ElkM1 to phone and email us upon activation of the fire alarm. As well as sound an alarm in the house and alarm at the barn. I would also like it to trigger a strobe light on the barn roof so the fire department knows where to head. It would be vice versa if the fire was triggered in the house zone.

I would like to put 4-5 smoke detectors in the barn.

-1 will be located in a tack room. It is heated, relatively low dust levels
-3 will be located along the barn isle. It is insulated and when the horses are inside, the temp never really drops below freezing, if so, only by a few degrees. During the day it is possible for it to match outside temperatures. it can be a relatively dusty environment at times (the barn is 100' long, it's got an isle way down the middle with stalls on either side)
-1 will be located in the hay storage area off to the side. This area is isolated from the rest of the barn. It matches outside temps and is very dusty.

At the barn I will putting a siren and some sort of strobe.

The barn is approx 300' from the house.

What type of smoke detectors should I use in this environment. Will heat sensors react fast enough? Faster?

I would like be notified ASAP, although I imagine that is everyones goal

Do I run cat5 to the barn and put some sort of hub with it's own power, or do I run cat5 for the smoke detectors and then speaker wire for the siren and something else for the strobe and connect it straight to the elk.

I don't need to monitor anything else with the elk such as glass break, etc...

What's the safest, most economical way to do this?

Thanks, Mike

I've had little luck with smoke detectors in barns. the tack room maybe but in the barn it's just too dirty and dusty. You'll have to vacum them out twice a month or so or you'll get lots of false alarms. I finally switched to using heat sensors instead.

 

[Digger]

I want to install a fire alarm system in my barn.

I'm ordering an ElkM1 because I will use this to automate my front gate, etc...

I will then setup the ElkM1 to phone and email us upon activation of the fire alarm. As well as sound an alarm in the house and alarm at the barn. I would also like it to trigger a strobe light on the barn roof so the fire department knows where to head. It would be vice versa if the fire was triggered in the house zone.

I would like to put 4-5 smoke detectors in the barn.

-1 will be located in a tack room. It is heated, relatively low dust levels
-3 will be located along the barn isle. It is insulated and when the horses are inside, the temp never really drops below freezing, if so, only by a few degrees. During the day it is possible for it to match outside temperatures. it can be a relatively dusty environment at times (the barn is 100' long, it's got an isle way down the middle with stalls on either side)
-1 will be located in the hay storage area off to the side. This area is isolated from the rest of the barn. It matches outside temps and is very dusty.

At the barn I will putting a siren and some sort of strobe.

The barn is approx 300' from the house.

What type of smoke detectors should I use in this environment. Will heat sensors react fast enough? Faster?

I would like be notified ASAP, although I imagine that is everyones goal

Do I run cat5 to the barn and put some sort of hub with it's own power, or do I run cat5 for the smoke detectors and then speaker wire for the siren and something else for the strobe and connect it straight to the elk.

I don't need to monitor anything else with the elk such as glass break, etc...

What's the safest, most economical way to do this?

Thanks, Mike

I would not run Cat 5 for the 300' unless you will have a seperate power supply in the barn as the voltage drop could be enough to affect the smoke detectors. I also would be careful with the siren as you would not want to scare the horses more than necessary. Maybe mount an outside siren on either end of the barn so if you are anywhere on your property you will hear it but its not inside the barn.

Maybe run a data bus and a siren line to the barn, mount a supervised power supply with battery backup, a zone expander, and a relay(for smoke detector reset) in an enclosure. You could have multiple zones, add a keypad etc if you want. This setup would be more expandable in the future. I would run multiple Cat 5 in case you want cameras etc in the future. Extra wire now would be easier than adding it later.

You could program the alarm to call your cell as well as neighbors etc in the case of a fire so someone could get the horses out ASAP. Obviusly the fire department is the first priority.

This is not the most economical short term but maybe in the long term.

 

[mikemehak]

I have run 3.5" PVC to the barn with rope for future pulls. I'm also running 2 cameras on video baluns along cat5.

I should be able to pull about 20 cat 5 cables if the need arises.

I've found information on the databus and trying to figure out how it works, what is a good zone expander from ELK?

I will be mounting the siren outside the barn.

Also, you say run a siren line to the barn. Can I not get the siran signel from the databus/expander? or would I need an output expander and input expander to do this?

Also, how far can I run the wire for the siren and what type do I use?

 

[Digger]

I have run 3.5" PVC to the barn with rope for future pulls. I'm also running 2 cameras on video baluns along cat5.

I should be able to pull about 20 cat 5 cables if the need arises.

I've found information on the databus and trying to figure out how it works, what is a good zone expander from ELK?

I will be mounting the siren outside the barn.

Also, you say run a siren line to the barn. Can I not get the siran signel from the databus/expander? or would I need an output expander and input expander to do this?

Also, how far can I run the wire for the siren and what type do I use?

Elk only has one input expander. It is 16 zones and you can have several on the system. The siren is usually driven by the panel but I guess you can have a seperate one for the barn by using a relay and driving a siren with a built in siren driver. I fyou run it from the panel run a heavier wire to the barn to minimize line loss. I would say anywhere from 14 to 18 awg wire in my opinion.

 

[carry15+1]

I have two detached buildings. I have them defined as "area" 2 on my Elk system. I'm in an urban area and I do not have my system monitored. In the even of a fire the system calls my cell phone and plays a message to me. The message is different for area 1 (house) and area 2 so I know where the fire is. I also have the message repeated 5 minutes later in case I missed it. My buildings are only about 100' from the house so I just used some 25 pair underground telephone cable and installed my zone expanders in the house at the main panel. In your case it's probably better to put an input expander, power supply and perhaps even an output expander in your barn. I also have a keypad in my shop which has burglary zones. My neighbor has a user code to disarm area 2, but not area 1. I like to check the temperature in the shop from the house with the house keypad. Getting any smoke detector to work without false alarms in a dusty environment is going to be tricky at best. I use 135 degree rate-of-rise thermal detectors in the small barn as well as the shop. I also have photo-electric smokes in the shop, but it isn't usually that dusty there.

 

[mikemehak]

if I have the girls that work in the barn vacuum out the detectors every month or even week, will that help cut down on the false alarms?

 

[Digger]

if I have the girls that work in the barn vacuum out the detectors every month or even week, will that help cut down on the false alarms?

A photelectric detector could false alarm an hour after you vacuum it if you get a cloud of dust etc that blocks the beam of light from reaching the detector. But I remember seeing smoke detectors in barns so I guess it is possible.

Thermals are cheaper and less prone to false alarms but would take longer to react to some types of fire.

An idea to consider is using a crosszone method. Detectors from 2 different zones would have to trip to initiate the alarm but you could have the first trip send a message to your cell phone and even sound the siren but not call the fire department until the second zone trips within a certian amount of time. That and using a fire alarm verification function would help. Probably faster than a thermal alone.

I would mix smokes and thermals (on different zones) at the very least. If you had to temporarily disable the smokes you still have coverage. Also check with your local inspector as to what type of coverage they require (if any)

 

[PaulD]

Good luck on the siren and flasher lights. If you have owned horses very long, you know how skiddish they can be. You may want to test that around your horses first. If they are like mine, the first time that siren and flasher goes off, they will freak out and hurt themselves as they thrash around and try to escape.

 

[CORT]

Does anyone have experience with UV/IR flame detectors? They seem like logical additions to heat detectors in dusty environments.

 

[mikemehak]

Good luck on the siren and flasher lights. If you have owned horses very long, you know how skiddish they can be. You may want to test that around your horses first. If they are like mine, the first time that siren and flasher goes off, they will freak out and hurt themselves as they thrash around and try to escape.

the lights go on the roof, aswell as the sirens outside.

Although they will scare the horses, it's safer in the long run.

I was at woodbine racetrack when there was a large fire several years ago. Over hundred horses were killed and several hundred suffered serious injuries. There were literaly horses running around on fire, it was total chaos.

Also when evacuating horses from a barn on fire you should never be setting them free. You should be leading them to a paddock or person to hold them. At the track fire people were setting them free. Although this saved many, it also caused many to panic and run back inside to their stall were they thought they would be safe.

They now have an alarm system in all the barns. Although the first couple times the horses startle, they adjust to the sound quite quickly. They key is to go with a low pitched slower siren. Rather than a bell or squawker/squeeler.

I'm also installing a dry sprinkler system over the summer. But I need to get a new well first. My current setup doesn't have the pressure.

Fire is my biggest fear when leaving the farm. We have staff during the day, but when we go out at night we worry, aswell as over night. Even though we just redid all the electric, you never know what might happen. Not only are these animals worth tens/hundreds of thousands, they are like family.

 

[Spanky]

Use the rate of rise fire heat detectors that activate upon a rapid rise in temperature as well as when the temperature either reaches 135 degrees or 195 degrees, depending on the fire detector. Put the 195 degree detector at the peak of the roof if the temperature gets hot in the summer. They are not subject to dust

 

[Ranger Digital]

I still cant see any reason to have the sirens in or on a barn? why not just have them where PEOPLE can hear them an respond accordingly? use a different type of siren and education everyone that if THIS siren is heard, the barn is on fire. Why startle animals? Startle people so THEY can react.

 

[mikemehak]

I still cant see any reason to have the sirens in or on a barn? why not just have them where PEOPLE can hear them an respond accordingly? use a different type of siren and education everyone that if THIS siren is heard, the barn is on fire. Why startle animals? Startle people so THEY can react.

because we have several staff and people working on and around the farm and barn. Someone could be working just outside the barn for 2 hours. In 10 minutes, several horses could be trapped without the person outside knowing their is a problem.

In the summer time we have 30+ horses here.

As said, a low tone siren doesn't startle the horses. I've been in many environments that use them with success. They don't startle the horse any more than people talking loudly. It's just another noise to them. If you have a voice recording blasting the barn is on fire it is just as likely to spook them. Horses generaly understand tone and pitch, not words.

I've worked full time with race horses my entire life. I'm well aware of their reactions and tolerances. That's not what this thread is about.

If you have been involved in a barn fire before you would understand the need for a system. The barn fire I was involved with had people sleeping in tack rooms at the barn overnight. They lived there full time and were there at the time of the fire. However, there was still not enough time to react. So if the person outside the barn sweeping heres the alarm right away rather than waiting 10 minutes until they smell smoke or see flames, some animals life might be saved.

We have over 30 horses here at times. Some ours, some other peoples. Why take chances?