Garage motion zone definition? Elk M1G

[AceCannon]

I clearly am a moron.

(exit 1 60s, entry 1 255s, exit 2 255s, entry 2 255s)

Garage scenario:
sensors on both overhead doors (entry exit 2)
sensors on windows (perimeter instant)
sensor on door that leads from garage into the house ("mudroom") entry exit 1
the keypad in just inside the house, not in the garage (in the mudroom)
PIR motion in the garage

So how to define the motion?
burg interior: can't be used since it is armed while trying to get into the car to leave
burg interior follower: delays when we get back since overhead door trips first. will it delay on exit?
burg interior night: instant alarm when tripped, wont work here
Burg interior night delay: arms after exit 1 time, I am still loading the car.

So do I need to increase the exit 1 time and use burg interior night delay?

It would be nice to have this motion armed/delay at night in stay mode. It def needs to follow, though, when we arrive and system is armed away.

I can't even articulate the scenario well. . .

 

[wuench]

It is a one of the most perplexing places to locate and configure a motion detector. You also need to consider if the garage door is up or down, you don't want something blowing in and setting off your detector and I don't think it will be as simple as specifying it as a specific zone type.

There are a lot of threads on this on CT, if you search. I believe one solution was to run it through an output relay and use a rule to control when it is enabled. Perhaps there is a way using bypass in rules as well, to ensure it is disabled when the garage door is open. But I would lean towards starting with an entry/exit2 type zone, force armable.

 

[signal15]

Could you define all of the garage sensors as Area 2, and then use an automation rule to arm area 2 a few minutes after area 1 is armed to give you your delay? You could use an F-key on the keypad for this functionality. Or if you have wireless, you can spend the $35 on a keyfob, forget about the delay, and just arm from the driveway when you're leaving.

You could also use this to determine if there was a car in the garage stall, when it leaves, and then arm when the car is gone and the door is shut:

http://www.automatedoutlet.com/Home/Photoe...m-Sensors/PR-1B

You would have to use some fairly complex logic and phantom outputs for variable storage. But it's certainly workable.

This is problematic if you have multiple cars and stalls. But if you always park in the same stall and arm with a code, the logic can determine which stall to look at because your unique code will identify you. You do use separate codes for each person, right?

I am about to run into this same scenario, but I have not put a ton of thought into it yet.

 

[AceCannon]

The separate Area idea had fleetingly run through my head before. . .

The entry/exit 2 idea is interesting and would not have to use rules. Off the top of my head I cannot see why that would not work. .

 

[tmbrown97]

Hey Ace,

I'm having trouble finding the thread where a bunch of us got into detail about the garage zones... but maybe you'll have better luck with the search.

Here's what I remember - the exit 2 is an interesting concept, but kinda sucks for the garage application; as does the force-arm option because it requires you to enter extra codes.

The best option I think most of us came up with was handling the entire situation through rules (using counters and rules to track how long it's been opened; it the alarm is armed, etc.). Then the problem becomes how to trigger the alarm if you want to - there's no way to do it through rules. The next best is to burn an output and an input (connect the output to the input) so you have a rule that you can programmatically trigger that'll basically violate a zone on command if the door has been opened too long.

Unfortunately the Garage needs more time and more control than is built into Elk's logic... For instance, if the motion is triggered and all doors are closed, you may want instant trigger - but if the main door opens and then the motion, you may want 5 minutes to get the car in and pull the trash cans up and wave to the neighbor before triggering the alarm. Then perhaps a warning before full alarm...

I just don't think the built-in logic is good for a garage - I think you need to think it out and handle it through rules instead... it'll burn some space, but if garage protection is important to you, then there are better ways to handle it.

 

[tmbrown97]

one other topic came up on the garage discussion...

Do you trigger the alarm to attract attention to the open door, or do you silently alert yourself and a neighbor or family member that the door is open so they can come close it? It depends on the situation and how/when the door was opened...

 

[AceCannon]

Todd B,

Yeah this rings a bell. . I think I saw that thread. The entry/exit 2 sounds good except for the lack of instant alarm. I think that is acceptable, tho.

They keypad warning tone may not be loud enough in the garage, so I may add some sort of rule to announce a violation of that motion if the system is armed. (I put one of those small SP12 speakers in the garage)

 

[pipeman]

I have not seen posts on the ELK Magic Modules, This seems like it would provide all or most of your needs.
ELK MM220
FEATURES:
• Two Digital Inputs.
• Two Form C Relay Outputs.
• Four Timers, 1/10th Sec. - 255 hours.
• Four General Purpose Counters, 0 - 255.
• Non-volatile EEProm Memory.
• LED Output Indicators.

 

[signal15]

Check out the Force Armable option under zones and/or full areas. This allows the zone to be violated during the exit delay, and return to service as soon as it becomes secure again.

Set your garage up as area 2, set the Force Armable flag, and make it part of Area 1. When you arm area 1 and area 2 is violated, or you violate area 2 during the exit delay, then it will start working normally as soon as everything becomes secure.

I have mine set up for this right now:

- Whenever area 1 is armed night instant mode, then execute a task that closes all garage doors if they are open, and arm area 2 to night instant after 1 minute.

- Whenever a task executes that opens any of my garage doors, it immediately disarms area 2 and opens the relevant door.

I'm not yet using the Force Armable since my garage is too filled with crap to park in. I still have to figure out something for away mode also.