Has anyone tried the LDS-E-120V dimming stabilizer with UPB LED lighting?
- Thread starter pete_c
- Start date
wkearney99
Senior Member
One suggestion, any time you have an LED, look it up on Lutron's database. Not for the dimmer, at least not specifically, but to see what the specs are for any they suggest.
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Pages/LEDCompatibilityTool/Compatibility.aspx
As to that product, seems like snake oil to me. Not sure how readily I'd buy something from some random residential house address. That and the FAQ has questionable statements like:
If anything it just appears to be an resistor putting a constant draw on the circuit. Seems wasteful and is the idea that LEDs are supposed to save energy?
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Pages/LEDCompatibilityTool/Compatibility.aspx
As to that product, seems like snake oil to me. Not sure how readily I'd buy something from some random residential house address. That and the FAQ has questionable statements like:
No. I would not be putting my house's wiring at risk without genuine factual explanation of what's going on.
If anything it just appears to be an resistor putting a constant draw on the circuit. Seems wasteful and is the idea that LEDs are supposed to save energy?
pete_c
Guru
Thanks Bill for the database link. Using a mixture of Amazon sold LED bulbs. (some generic and some name brands that Amazon sells).
The ones in question are clear standard base dimmable style. They do appear to be very incandescent filament like except when they flicker.
Been seeing the sellers emails now for a bit over a year now and PCS lighting does advertise the same product.
Older products did add a load to the circuit and some were capacitors and others were capacitor and resistors and I did read that those devices got a tad warm.
The ones in question are clear standard base dimmable style. They do appear to be very incandescent filament like except when they flicker.
Been seeing the sellers emails now for a bit over a year now and PCS lighting does advertise the same product.
Older products did add a load to the circuit and some were capacitors and others were capacitor and resistors and I did read that those devices got a tad warm.
wkearney99
Senior Member
I saw that it was on the PCS website. I've learned not to seller listing an item as an endorsement, one way or the other these days.
Sure, non-neutral devices have to complete the circuit somehow, and through the lighting element was typical. For an incandescent that wasn't enough to cause it to illuminate. But most LEDs have, essentially, a power supply in them and that same past trickle voltage ends up being just enough to charge/fire the power supply enough to cause the LED to illuminate, even if it's just a flicker.. or a failure to turn off cleanly.
LEDs are a mess. And there's no real sign that's going to change for the better any time soon.
Sure, non-neutral devices have to complete the circuit somehow, and through the lighting element was typical. For an incandescent that wasn't enough to cause it to illuminate. But most LEDs have, essentially, a power supply in them and that same past trickle voltage ends up being just enough to charge/fire the power supply enough to cause the LED to illuminate, even if it's just a flicker.. or a failure to turn off cleanly.
LEDs are a mess. And there's no real sign that's going to change for the better any time soon.
Looks like the unit has been fully tested for safety under US and Canadian ETL approvals.
It would seem to be a tuned device and they have no way of knowing which frequency to "smooth out" so they give you an experimental technique to follow.
My guess is the device has no resistive load otherwise there would need to be cooling restrictions of where you could place it and it wouldn't be buried inside an electrical box where it could cause a fire.
Here is an http link that doesn't attempt to open an app not compatible with real browsers.
oh forget it. The link posting is restricted here. Change the 'hxxp' posted to 'https'
It would seem to be a tuned device and they have no way of knowing which frequency to "smooth out" so they give you an experimental technique to follow.
My guess is the device has no resistive load otherwise there would need to be cooling restrictions of where you could place it and it wouldn't be buried inside an electrical box where it could cause a fire.
Here is an http link that doesn't attempt to open an app not compatible with real browsers.
oh forget it. The link posting is restricted here. Change the 'hxxp' posted to 'https'
Code:
https://ldsdimming.com/pages/frequently-asked-questionswkearney99
Senior Member
Though not UL tested and 'patent pending' along with the text from their own website makes me second guess it entirely.
I'd rather jump through other hoops than play around house wiring and unknowns.
Don't get me wrong, could well be great... but it could also just be nothing more than an overpriced resistor in heat-shrink wrap. And it's a band-aid to work around what should be handled properly at the dimmer or the bulb. Buried in the box it's then going to be headache years later when the existing bulb dies and nobody knows why the new one's acting strange.
I'd rather jump through other hoops than play around house wiring and unknowns.
Don't get me wrong, could well be great... but it could also just be nothing more than an overpriced resistor in heat-shrink wrap. And it's a band-aid to work around what should be handled properly at the dimmer or the bulb. Buried in the box it's then going to be headache years later when the existing bulb dies and nobody knows why the new one's acting strange.
I used one at my previous house. As I remember, it worked well, but its really just trial-and-error. As for power consumption, it only uses 1.4 watts at full brightness, and that is per circuit, NOT per light, since one should work for many lights. Lets say you had 5 LED bulbs on a circuit, they might draw 50 watts total, so we are talking 1.4 extra watts max. By the way, UPB switches themselves draw at least 3 watts each, and that is 24 hours a day, so hopefully you are not using them if another 1.4 watts bother you.
I just bought some Zigbee switches and they do not require a neutral, BUT they require that the bulbs draw more than 12W for them to work. If not they provide a few watt resistor labeled an "LED Adapter." When you get some advantages, like no neutral, there is always some overhead.
I used to work analyzing LED bulbs (don't anymore) but they are designed to be CHEAP and not infringe on patents, at least non-Chinese bulbs worry about the latter. Its amazing how many different ways you can design a circuit, so no way any dimmer could work well with every LED bulb. I've always liked those filament type LED bulbs because their power supply is really simple and they seem to flicker less, but that's just me.
I just bought some Zigbee switches and they do not require a neutral, BUT they require that the bulbs draw more than 12W for them to work. If not they provide a few watt resistor labeled an "LED Adapter." When you get some advantages, like no neutral, there is always some overhead.
I used to work analyzing LED bulbs (don't anymore) but they are designed to be CHEAP and not infringe on patents, at least non-Chinese bulbs worry about the latter. Its amazing how many different ways you can design a circuit, so no way any dimmer could work well with every LED bulb. I've always liked those filament type LED bulbs because their power supply is really simple and they seem to flicker less, but that's just me.
pete_c
Guru
Ordered one of these to test on one UPB light switch which controls 3 lamps. They are sold on Amazon these days. Will be testing the device by leaving it out of the light switch box for a few days. Lots of space inside of the box as it is a metal 4X4 box with a single metal mudplate with one UPB switch.
I like the look of the clear bulbs here and have used them now for all of the table lamps. The outside coach lamps top half clear LED bulbs connected to the UPB switches are doing well and not flickering at all these days. I have switched over the overhead lights with covers (2 bulbs) in the hallways with frosted style LED lamps and these also have done well and dim fine for me. (don't really dim them much though). The clear round candlabra bulbs in the bathrooms are all doing well these days.
Unrelated over the last few months been using (unrelated) mini 120VAC to 12VDC LED power supplies. These get a bit warm and have functioned fine now 24/7.
I also have been testing one dimmable 120VAC to 12VDC power supply connected to a UPB switch and a 60" LED light strip over the home office book shelves.
Noticed this morning that the items sold on Amazon while free shipping are 3rd party such that there is no 2 day prime delivery. There are two types sold ...E type and R type. I asked the vendor if it doesn't work then can I return it postage paid.
I like the look of the clear bulbs here and have used them now for all of the table lamps. The outside coach lamps top half clear LED bulbs connected to the UPB switches are doing well and not flickering at all these days. I have switched over the overhead lights with covers (2 bulbs) in the hallways with frosted style LED lamps and these also have done well and dim fine for me. (don't really dim them much though). The clear round candlabra bulbs in the bathrooms are all doing well these days.
Unrelated over the last few months been using (unrelated) mini 120VAC to 12VDC LED power supplies. These get a bit warm and have functioned fine now 24/7.
I also have been testing one dimmable 120VAC to 12VDC power supply connected to a UPB switch and a 60" LED light strip over the home office book shelves.
Noticed this morning that the items sold on Amazon while free shipping are 3rd party such that there is no 2 day prime delivery. There are two types sold ...E type and R type. I asked the vendor if it doesn't work then can I return it postage paid.
pete_c
Guru
Answer (not) from Amazon / LED vendor...
Hi Pete,
We sent your question about LDS... to the Amazon community and unfortunately none of them have yet responded.
Questions remain unanswered when we do not have enough customers to ask or when the question is particularly difficult to answer. At this point your question is unlikely to receive an answer, but it will remain posted on Amazon and we will notify you if anyone responds.
Thank you for shopping on Amazon!
Hi Pete,
We sent your question about LDS... to the Amazon community and unfortunately none of them have yet responded.
Questions remain unanswered when we do not have enough customers to ask or when the question is particularly difficult to answer. At this point your question is unlikely to receive an answer, but it will remain posted on Amazon and we will notify you if anyone responds.
Thank you for shopping on Amazon!
Hmmmm...pete_c said:
Isn't it this https://www.amazon.com/LED-Dimming-Solutions-LDS-E-120V/dp/B07MT633ML/ref=pd_sbs_121_2
and this https://www.amazon.com/LED-Dimming-Solutions-LDS-R-120V/dp/B07MQT9V32/ref=pd_sbs_121_1
I don't see any questions posted for either on Amazon.
pete_c
Guru
Started here too been getting blaster emails now for a while and have been waiting to see if anyone else was using the product.
I know that PCS had a similiar product a couple of years ago and now recommend and advertise for this new product.
I have asked here and on Homeseer if anyone has tried the product and only Ano has responded and said it worked for him.
I mentioned here again in the OP as I noticed that Amazon started to sell the product except that it is third party and not Prime.
I know that PCS had a similiar product a couple of years ago and now recommend and advertise for this new product.
I have asked here and on Homeseer if anyone has tried the product and only Ano has responded and said it worked for him.
I mentioned here again in the OP as I noticed that Amazon started to sell the product except that it is third party and not Prime.
When I was looking at these I must have inadvertently purchased the:
PCS 10K Load Resistor for LED Lighting (ILR-10K)
Because its on the way. A great buy too, a 2W 10K resistor for $28. See what happened now that Radio Shack is gone. :unsure:
Well all I can say is, I'm very happy for Amazon free returns.
PCS 10K Load Resistor for LED Lighting (ILR-10K)
Because its on the way. A great buy too, a 2W 10K resistor for $28. See what happened now that Radio Shack is gone. :unsure:
Well all I can say is, I'm very happy for Amazon free returns.
pete_c
Guru
These are on Home Controls website for $15.95 and here have a dealer direct account with PCS and just looked at Worthington and see them for less than $16.
Going to Worthington Distribution and order them tomorrow.
I thought you tried one of the other ones in your old home and you said it worked for you?
Going to Worthington Distribution and order them tomorrow.
I thought you tried one of the other ones in your old home and you said it worked for you?