Homerunning a room, not each wire....

[CollinR]

Another point--your local code may not require smoke detectors to be on fire rated cable, but why would you not do it. Are you trying to do a minimum quality job, or do you want to do it right? There is a difference between "minumum code requirement" and "best practices." Exceeding code on a personal safety system is extra peace of mind.

I think you will be more confident in your system's performance and reliability if you home run the sensors and use fire rated cable on the smokes, keypad, siren(s), etc. Good luck.

He is talking about using conventional smokes with either an addon trigger or an integrated one. The inspector only cares about smokes not an actual fire system, thats why he said it wasn't needed. If you have a pro come out to connect it to a monitoring company they will not allow it as it doesn't meet codes for signaling fire. Thats above and beyond the smokes and relays used themselves.

Thats we all trying telling you. Use cheap UL firewire while you can as it won't come often. I would take this pretty seriously, both smokes will save your lives. Either choice will not effect building codes. I know the rules seem strange, unfounded and more expensive but almost every rule has a good enough reason.

 

[beelzerob]

He is talking about using conventional smokes with either an addon trigger or an integrated one. The inspector only cares about smokes not an actual fire system, thats why he said it wasn't needed. If you have a pro come out to connect it to a monitoring company they will not allow it as it doesn't meet codes for signaling fire. Thats above and beyond the smokes and relays used themselves.

Thats we all trying telling you. Use cheap UL firewire while you can as it won't come often. I would take this pretty seriously, both smokes will save your lives. Either choice will not effect building codes. I know the rules seem strange, unfounded and more expensive but almost every rule has a good enough reason.

Ya, I know, the code means well.....reminds me of reading the military training manuals....everytime you got to a "Caution" or "Warning", you knew in the back of your head it had probably come about because of some horrible accident.

You're right, the relay in the smoke detector is integrated, but it is otherwise a conventional smoke. (The GE 350CC smoke). I have no plans ever to hire someone like ADT or a pro monitoring company....if there's a problem, I'm probably going to have the Elk call my cousin who lives next door.

 

[CollinR]

Nevermind those are real deal units.


Just run firewire to each and back to the Elk, in OK you don't need firewire for keypads or sounders but it wouldn't hurt. Might check on the local codes.

 

[beelzerob]

Nevermind those are real deal units.


Just run firewire to each and back to the Elk, in OK you don't need firewire for keypads or sounders but it wouldn't hurt. Might check on the local codes.

I HOPE they are, they're darn expensive! (well, compared to what they were GOING to install in my house, anyway).

I'll grab a 1k box of firewire, and after I've wired the smokes, I'll use it for future keypad locations until I run out...there should be enough to go around.

 

[CollinR]

Find the best price and I'll beat it. I don't have a fire license in OK but I have bought others inventorys, so I have it and have no use for it. I assume 500' would more then cover you.

 

[beelzerob]

Find the best price and I'll beat it. I don't have a fire license in OK but I have bought others inventorys, so I have it and have no use for it. I assume 500' would more then cover you.

Ok, that works for me! I thought you were kidding before about giving me a great deal on it, heh.

I'd take 1k if you have it...I have an estimate right now of 400 ft for the planned smokes, but I'm planning to add at least a few more smokes to the plan (during electrical walkthrough), and that would give spare for keypads, etc. However, just about 10 posts ago, I hadn't given firewire a second thought....so 500 works just great too.

I'll ask the guy I'm buying all my other wire from how much his firewire is, but I'll buy it from you. Is firewire firewire, or should I ask him for something specific?

 

[CollinR]

What I have is 22/4 solid so you can series them back at the panel for a single zone or just use one of the pairs and have as many zones as you like.

 

[beelzerob]

What I have is 22/4 solid so you can series them back at the panel for a single zone or just use one of the pairs and have as many zones as you like.

Oooh, ok. Ya, with 22/4, I can snake it past 2 smokes instead of a single run per, so in that case, 500' should be just fine. I want to be have a separate pair per smoke, so that works good.

 

[Steve]

What I have is 22/4 solid so you can series them back at the panel for a single zone or just use one of the pairs and have as many zones as you like.

I always thought firewire was 18/4 red, type FPL (or FPLR or FPLP)?

 

[upstatemike]

What I have is 22/4 solid so you can series them back at the panel for a single zone or just use one of the pairs and have as many zones as you like.

I always thought firewire was 18/4 red, type FPL (or FPLR or FPLP)?

Fire wire can come in many gauges and conductor counts... the main thing is that it is red, solid, power limited cable. I have a lot of 16/6 and 14/2 fire wire in my house. It also has a unique color code. As I recall the first pair is red/black, then brown/blue then yellow/orange.

 

[upstatemike]

I'd take 1k if you have it...I have an estimate right now of 400 ft for the planned smokes, but I'm planning to add at least a few more smokes to the plan (during electrical walkthrough), and that would give spare for keypads, etc. However, just about 10 posts ago, I hadn't given firewire a second thought....so 500 works just great too.

As I recall from another thread, somebody had an inspector reject his wiring because "extra" fire wire was used to wire something not related to fire/security. No point buying too much because it looks like you can't use it for other things.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

beelzerob;

Aren't those smoke detectors direct replacements for 120 VAC type? I know in my new home they supplied seven smoke detectors and I replaced just one of them with the GE 350 so if that one, or any other of the six went off, I would get a contact closure to my system.

If it's money you want to save, why not have the builder put in their standard smoke detectors, then just replace one of them with the GE and run firewire to just that one?

 

[beelzerob]

beelzerob;

Aren't those smoke detectors direct replacements for 120 VAC type? I know in my new home they supplied seven smoke detectors and I replaced just one of them with the GE 350 so if that one, or any other of the six went off, I would get a contact closure to my system.

If it's money you want to save, why not have the builder put in their standard smoke detectors, then just replace one of them with the GE and run firewire to just that one?

You're right, actually, I could do that...just replace 1 smoke from the $5 specials they'll install and I'll then have an alarm indication to my panel when any smoke goes off. I'm not sure why, but so far I've been enthralled with knowing WHICH smoke alarm is going off. I wanted to setup my interfaces so that when the alarm goes off, it would bring up the floorplan on the touchpanels and show me which room was alarming.....

In retrospect, this actually just sounds cool compared to being all that useful. Our house is big...but also really open. So it's not like it would take very long at all to discern where the problem is.

I honestly hadn't thought about it since you mentioned it....but since money IS tight going into this point, I think maybe I'll just buy 2 of the GE smokes, so I can know if it's specifically the basement vs. the rest of the house, since it's so closed off comparatively. (I would put one in the garage, but my builder said it wasn't a good idea to put them in an unheated part of the house...that the cold weather can often lead to false alarms).

I can, at least (hopefully without any code issues, but they definitely seem lax on this so far), run the firewire to each smoke location in case I somehow hit a major sale on the things and I can replace them all then.

 

[CollinR]

1. How much for these smokes? (~$55?)

2. You would want a different part#, the one previsouly mentioned will only trip the alarm if it sences smoke regaurdless of the tandem circuit's state.


It comes down to $, the GEs mentioned are very nice units. I would at minimum not use the absolute el cheapo stuff the builder may spec, stick to photoelectric or a combo photo over rate of rise thermal.

Do you have any thermal stuff in the attic (fire started by lighting) or kitchen?

Keep in mind heat and smoke rise, if the fire starts in the attic it will need to burn down into the home before your smokes will trip. You could probably pull off 2 of the GEs you mentioned and then some thermals and be way better then average.


I ~think~ I can get some Bosch thermals for ~$20 which would be great in the attic.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

The model I used was GE ESL350CX. HERE is the thread where the information was originally posted.