How can I tell if the front door is opened because I'm coming home and not because I'm leaving?

[BrettS]

I finally got my security system connected to homeseer and I'm starting to think of things I can do now that I couldn't do before. One thing that I thought of would be a simple rule that would turn on the light in the front hall if it's dark outside and I come home and open the front door.

Unfortunately, as I started thinking about it, it's becoming less and less simple. It's easy enough to tell if it's dark outside, and now I can tell when the front door is opened, but the problem is that homeseer won't know if I'm leaving the house or entering the house. Obviously if I'm leaving the house and I managed to make it to the front door in the dark I'm not going to want the light to come on as soon as I open the door... then I'd just need to turn it off again.

I could check to see if the security system is armed at the time the door is opened. If the system is armed, then clearly I'm coming home (or someone is breaking in) But the problem is that if I go out and my wife is still home then the system won't be armed when I come back, so that won't work every time.

Short of adding addtional hardware like RFID or a motion detector do you have any thoughts about what I could do?

Thanks,
Brett

 

[mustangcoupe]

Good point... I never thought about this.... I always used the is armed logic... hmmm

 

[IVB]

don't worry about whether you're coming or going. Have it always turn the light on. But, set a 60 second timer and record what the current state was pre-opening. At the end of that timer, if the light was on, leave it on. If it was off, turn it off.

That's what I do, works great for my need. The light isn't on when I come home as it timed out after 60 seconds, and it doesn't turn the light off on the wife if she wanted it on.

 

[jrs0628]

I use a motion detector in the entry area/room and if the motion trips at least 10 seconds before the door opens, it knows I am leaving. If the door opens first and then the motion trips less then 5 seconds after, it knows I'm entering. I have it set a little more complex than that, but thats the basics of it.

 

[dtreyes]

In my case I also placed magnetic sensor on the storm door. I placed it closer to the hinge so no false alarm.
Now I am using the following logic:
If the main door change status to open and storm door is close, then someone is leaving the house.
If the storm door change status to open and main door is close, then someone is entering the house.

 

[BrettS]

Interesting ideas... unfortunately the storm door idea won't work for me because I don't have a storm door, but that would be a good solution.

I'm thinking more and more that a motion sensor is going to be the best option. I've been debating getting one for my security system to cover the front hall area anyway, so I guess it could serve two purposes.

In the mean time, I like the timer idea. The only down side would be if I came home and it turned on the light for me, but then I wanted to leave the light on for a while. Still, though, I think that'll be about the closest I'll come to a solution without a motion sensor.

Thanks again,
Brett

 

[GraysonPeddie]

Hmm... I think it might be helpful to place a motion sensor on the top of the front door's frame, which will be faced down.

That way, if a wife (for example) is in the house (mostly the living room watching TV and that the front door is located in the living room) and wife's husband enters the house, the security system will not think that someone's leaving.

 

[SnyperBob]

You will only need 1 motion detector on the outside right? If the door opens without motion detected, that means you're leaving. If there's motion and then the door opens, you're coming?

Having the detector outside of the door also allows you to detect people on your front stoop. You can have the system chime or whatever. Think delivery men dropping off packages, kids putting advertisements on your door, etc.

 

[GraysonPeddie]

Well, I'm talking about the motion detector for the inside, facing down toward the floor.

But it would be nice to have a motion detector integrated into a doorbell just to keep the outside front door looking nice and clean for my apartment. However, I think one of the questions about my post might come up as: What's the point of having a motion detector built-in to a doorbell? Well, it can help the security system tell if the person is entering or leaving.

However, for use with Elk M1 Gold equipped with M1XRF2G, I don't think GE has a wireless device with a doorbell button and motion detector in one single device.

 

[BrettS]

Hmm... I think it might be helpful to place a motion sensor on the top of the front door's frame, which will be faced down.

That way, if a wife (for example) is in the house (mostly the living room watching TV and that the front door is located in the living room) and wife's husband enters the house, the security system will not think that someone's leaving.

Hmm... good point. The front door is in a foyer that's seperate from the living room, but the foyer is still open to the living room and I would imagine that I would want a security motion sensor to have as wide of a view as possible, so this would lead to the problem of people in the living room possibly triggering it before someone opens the door from the outside.

As I think about it, I think I have a few X10 motion sensors still lying around. Maybe I should try to use one of those above the door frame. Mounting it outside might be a good idea too if the signal will make it through the cinderblock wall... I don't know that I'll do the automatic doorbell thing, but it would be nice to automatically turn on the porch lights when someone steps onto the porch at night.

I'm thinking that I want to do this for the door between the garage and the house too, but I guess that one's easier... if the overhead garage door has been opened shortly before the door to the house is opened, then it's someone coming home.

Thanks for the ideas everyone

Brett

 

[Squintz]

User RFID. I'm currently writing the driver for CQC and Wavetrend long range RFID but there are cheaper RFID options available. Just put one on your car and set up a rule that when the car leaves for more than 10 seconds then turn the lights off.

Back when I was using homeseer I did this and it worked very well. I put a tag in my wallet(a little bulky) and I put one in my wifes purse. Then I had one on each car. That way I knew which car was missing and which people were missing. When I got home the front porch lights automatically came on.

The other way you might be able to do this is with a W800RF wireless x10 receiver and some wireless motion detectors. Put them under the dash of your car and monitor it for motion. I think Dan did a How-To on this.

 

[electron]

Squintz, have you successfully reverse engineered the protocol, or did you get the Wavetrend SDK?

 

[GraysonPeddie]

Well, those who are visually impaired (like me) can't drive, so motion detector is the way to go.

 

[CollinR]

If you put a camera outside not only will you know motion but you can actually see who it is.

However more $ and more complicated.

 

[sic0048]

A floor pressure pad could work the same way as a PIR. If you have one installed inside, if there is no pressure on the mat prior to the door opening, then you know someone is coming in the door. But it may be less prone to the false readings that you are concerned about in post #10.