Insteon Keypadlinc problems

[Madcodger]

All: I also posted this on the Smarthome techmall board, so apologies if you saw it there. There's just not a great deal of overlap between the two boards and Cocoontech members seem to be able to solve anything. A similar post is also in the Homeseer board, but no resolution via that yet, either. Here's the problem:

I currently have 51 Insteon devices installed, and with the exception of a Switchlinc that I have to change out due to the triac flutter issue, most of the system is working beautifully now.

What is not working well are my keypadlincs. They control my Insteon switches very well after they have been linked, but they also seem to have developed three other problems that may or may not be related. First, it seems one of these kaypadlincs has now developed links to a previously installed switchlinc and also between the B button on one keypadlinc and the On button of another keypadlinc. Rather weird, but not the biggest problem.

I have also found that my PLC (2414S, v 2.12) doesn't seem to "see" some of my button presses when I attempt to use them to trigger events in HomeSeer. This happens even after I have manually linked the button in question to the PLC. Example: I have a Homeseer event that shuts off the lighting in the living area of the house and arms the Elk security panel for the night when a particular keypadlinc button is pressed. Some days it works beautifully, but on others it doesn't work at all.

Finally, my keypadlinc buttons (individually or all of them - it varies) will sometimes flash and flicker after a keypadlinc button is pressed, and at other times when no button is pressed but other Insteon traffic is on the line. It's very annoying and unattractive. Note that this is not the load on the keypadlinc (there aren't any) but the LEDs themselves.

So... Does anyone have any idea of what's going on here? Would the recently released version of the keypadlinc solve this? As noted, everything else (46 other devices!) is very solid now. It's just these @#$^@#$^ keypadlincs that are driving me batty.

Thanks.

 

[upstatemike]

The flashing LEDs are definitely a firmware issue and would be resolved if you exchanged them for current versions.

I don't know about the triggersd to Homeseer because I use PowerHome for Insteon trigger events. I am also using the USB version of the PLI. I have heard there is a difference between the serial and usb units.

I have also had issues with mystery links from other devices. Sometimes it is not the KeypadLinc but instead the device table in the controlled divice that is causing it. If you factory reset a keypadLinc but not a switch that it used to control, the switch is still going to respond when it sees button presses on the KeypadLinc.

PowerHome has helped me clean up any of that bad link type stuff. I don't know if Homeseer can do likewise (but I doubt it).

 

[SmartLabsMike]

Finally, my keypadlinc buttons (individually or all of them - it varies) will sometimes flash and flicker after a keypadlinc button is pressed, and at other times when no button is pressed but other Insteon traffic is on the line. It's very annoying and unattractive. Note that this is not the load on the keypadlinc (there aren't any) but the LEDs themselves.

Hi Madcodger,

We updated the firmware a while ago to remove the backlight flicker. Give tech support a call and they will swap it for you.

 

[SmartLabsMike]

I have also had issues with mystery links from other devices. Sometimes it is not the KeypadLinc but instead the device table in the controlled divice that is causing it. If you factory reset a keypadLinc but not a switch that it used to control, the switch is still going to respond when it sees button presses on the KeypadLinc.

PowerHome has helped me clean up any of that bad link type stuff. I don't know if Homeseer can do likewise (but I doubt it).

This is a good point. If you factory reset only one device you will have what we call an orphan link or a half-link. Depending on who you designated the controller and responder the devices may still respond since only 1 device has reset the database.

PowerHome or HouseLinc will allow you to look at what is in the database and as upstatemike mentioned - they give you the ability to clean up the link tables.

 

[pkoslow]

Madcodger,

Do you mind detailing how you have the Insteon interface connected?

I'm assuming you're using the HomeSeer M1 plug-in to facilitate communications between the two , but how are you interfacing Insteon?

Do you have the 2414s connected directly to the Elk using the Elk serial Expander (M1XSP), or do you have it connected to you HS computer running the HomeSeer Insteon Beta plug-in?

I've been toying with these different combinations for several days now and still can't decide what seems to work best as I've run into issues with each configuration.

I have found PowerHome to be a big help in configuratoin and transferring the data in to the Elk M1XSP. Insteon at the switch level seems to be working well for me after getting everything linked and even testing some switch based group lighting scenes.

Replacing all my Keypadlincs and several 600 & 1000w Switchlincs last weekend has resolved the flicker issue, but I will occasionaly see what I think you describe even on my replacement keypadlincs. The flicker is gone, but sometimes on pressing a Keypadlinc button, it will flash several times as the light responds... I can't figure this out either as it only happens occasionally.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[jeffx]

We updated the firmware a while ago to remove the backlight flicker. Give tech support a call and they will swap it for you.

Mike, preparing to call in one large RMA for my flickering Switchlinc V2's, blinking Keypadlinc V2's and my recalled Appliancelinc V2's.

These were purchased over multiple orders from Smarthome and Automated Outlet.

This is one problem I have with ordering directly from Smarthome.com--I can't just log in to my account at Smarthome.com and pull up an order history. This makes it a VERY big hassle going through the hundred or so order emails I have from Smarthome (on average 4 emails per order--more if something is backorderd) and determining what all my order #'s are.

Any plans to improve Smarthome.com to give use the ability to view our order history?

Also, does Smarthome handle the Warranty RMA's for the devices purchased from other stores?

 

[Madcodger]

Madcodger,

Do you mind detailing how you have the Insteon interface connected?

I'm assuming you're using the HomeSeer M1 plug-in to facilitate communications between the two , but how are you interfacing Insteon?

Do you have the 2414s connected directly to the Elk using the Elk serial Expander (M1XSP), or do you have it connected to you HS computer running the HomeSeer Insteon Beta plug-in?

I've been toying with these different combinations for several days now and still can't decide what seems to work best as I've run into issues with each configuration.

I have found PowerHome to be a big help in configuratoin and transferring the data in to the Elk M1XSP. Insteon at the switch level seems to be working well for me after getting everything linked and even testing some switch based group lighting scenes.

Replacing all my Keypadlincs and several 600 & 1000w Switchlincs last weekend has resolved the flicker issue, but I will occasionaly see what I think you describe even on my replacement keypadlincs. The flicker is gone, but sometimes on pressing a Keypadlinc button, it will flash several times as the light responds... I can't figure this out either as it only happens occasionally.

Cheers,
Paul

First, thanks to each of you for the info. I have an email into SH now about the KPL flicker and am happy to hear the new firmware will resolve that. I actually purchased the KPLs from another board member who had given up on Insteon, but am fairly certain SH will honor the warranty. The equipment was only 3 months old, and given that it's a known firmware defect, I expect SH will do the "honorable thing". I've purchased a boatload of other Insteon (and X10 equipment) they made over the past few years, although primarily through Martin at AO. They were very good about it in a conversation a couple of weeks ago.

As for dead half links, that raises an interesting question: Using Powerhome, how do you remove a link that is only in the responder? Controller links are, of course, easy because you manage links in the controller group section of PH. But the responder section only allows you to view links, which may not exist in the controller if they were manually removed (the case with some of mine). Ideas on that?

Specific to Paul's question:

I an using HS and Jon's Insteon plugin to interface with my Insteon equipment, although I'm evaluating PH for link management. As I understand it, Jon has been going back and forth with Smarthome about the SDM and PLC firmware, but apparently this is now being resolved and a new version of the Insteon plugin for HS will be out soon. I think the same thing is happening with PH as they have announced better link managment coming soon for that product as well.

I actually purchased an Insteon interface (M1XSP with the downloaded Insteon firmware), but it's still in the original box. I am still adding to my system (glutton for punishment I occasionally think, but I have faith...) and didn't want to have to manage another interface. I use DooMotion extensively, so had to have HS anyway. Thus, no direct M1 control of Insteon yet. Given that the M1 has never, ever let me down for a second, though, I'm tempted...

I'm having moderate success with PH for link management, and hope to test the new version before my trial period runs out. If it works, I'll certainly buy it if for nothing other than that. I wish SH would allow us to test Houselinc! Bad policy they have there, as it's not available for download or evaluation.

Finally, my current understanding of the flashing we sometimes witness is that the KPL thinks it has a bad link attached to that button or the whole KPL (still not clear on which). Jon tells me that Insteon buttons transmit Insteon GROUP commands rather than (as I understand it) individual commands that can be acknowledged (which is the case with other Insteon devices). Thus, they would be inherently much less reliable. I hope I have that wrong, and if someone can correct me on that, I'd be very happy.

BTW, Paul, you have one of the best systems I've "seen". I'm especially envious of the RFID!

Joe

 

[upstatemike]

As for dead half links, that raises an interesting question: Using Powerhome, how do you remove a link that is only in the responder? Controller links are, of course, easy because you manage links in the controller group section of PH. But the responder section only allows you to view links, which may not exist in the controller if they were manually removed (the case with some of mine). Ideas on that?

Good question. If it is linked to anything at all you can go to that controller in the controller group section , right click on the device, and select rebuild. I guess if it is not linked to anything you would have to link it to something temporarily so it is listed in the controller group section. Then you could rebuild it to eliminate the junk links and then remove the temporary "good" link.

 

[jeffx]

I am having the same issue with Powerhome and bad "responder" links. I can't figure out how to remove these reponder links other than by doing a hard reset.

Powerhome also seems to be creating some invalid links that were not there before for device addresses that don't exist.

Also, with some of the groups I have created in my keypadlincs using powerhome, a small percentage of the links do not get created completelly--1/2 of the link is verified while the other 1/2 is not found.

The groups I am having these issues with contain about 30 links each. Any ETA on the new-improved Insteon linking interface in the upcoming Powerhome beta?

I am RMA'ing all my keypadlincs today to get keypads that don't flicker and I'd like to figure this all out before setting up my new keypads. Thx.

 

[pkoslow]

Joe,

Thanks for the response...

Yesterday I got all my Insteon dialed-in and pushed to the Elk M1XSP (I continued to have problems with the current HS plug-in which relys on the SDM).

I don't use DooMotion so am planning to put some base automation into the Elk for timed lighting and lights that are activated by motion & door contacts, leaving the fancier stuff to HS.

Right now my remaining hurdles are that the Insteon/Elk combo doesn't seem to be aware of Keypadlincs except for the load button. I've done some group lighting scenes tied to switchlinc buttons that were setup in PowerHome which work well, but need HS to be aware of these button presses too to it can add other automation tasks to the lighting changes.

I've not been able to make PH groups work with the Elk yet either. I know others have, so I'll have to look into this further.

I'll try today to add X10 addresses to the Keypadlinc buttons, but don't know how well X10 will still work in my house after adding all the Insteon. After I installed 8-10 Insteon devices, my X10 signals got really unreliable. At this point, I've added more Insteon and have removed X10 devices completely from the system so hate to fall back to it for the Keypadlinc buttons!

Thanks for the compliments on my system... the RFID is easily the favorite part of my HA system. So much happens automatically for us now, that it would be a huge step back without it. I've got my guest access offline for a few days as I'm working through a fairly major overhaul swapping out my ADI gear with the Elk, creating a new HS config from scratch, and helping with the beta testing on a couple new HS plug-ins.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[SmartLabsMike]

We updated the firmware a while ago to remove the backlight flicker. Give tech support a call and they will swap it for you.

Mike, preparing to call in one large RMA for my flickering Switchlinc V2's, blinking Keypadlinc V2's and my recalled Appliancelinc V2's.

These were purchased over multiple orders from Smarthome and Automated Outlet.

This is one problem I have with ordering directly from Smarthome.com--I can't just log in to my account at Smarthome.com and pull up an order history. This makes it a VERY big hassle going through the hundred or so order emails I have from Smarthome (on average 4 emails per order--more if something is backorderd) and determining what all my order #'s are.

Any plans to improve Smarthome.com to give use the ability to view our order history?

Also, does Smarthome handle the Warranty RMA's for the devices purchased from other stores?

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the feedback on the website. I know that we are working on having customer logins and other such features added to the smarthome.com website. I don't have timelines on this rollout.

For appliancelincs you need to fill out the form from the email - customer service does not have the ability to enter in the information. http://www.smartlabsinc.com/replacement/appliance.html

I do not know all of the customer service terms. I sent a note to the team about RMA's from other outlets.

 

[jeffx]

Mike, thanks for the quick reply! Replacement devices are on their way.

 

[jeffx]

I just found out that there will be another future firmware update to fix extended messaging in the Insteon devices (fixed in the PowerLinc with the most recent update). If I would have known that, I may have waited on this RMA

Any ETA from Smarthome on when the firmware will be updated in all the insteon devices to fix extended messaging?

I wish Smarthome would make something available to us to update the firmware without having to RMA/remove/replace/rewire every switch. It would probably cost them less money than all these switch replacements are costing them.

 

[upstatemike]

Maybe one of the features of extended messaging will be the ability to do firmware updates through software? Maybe in the future it will be an option within HouseLinc or PowerHome instead of an RMA process?

 

[gregoryx]

As for dead half links, that raises an interesting question: Using Powerhome, how do you remove a link that is only in the responder? Controller links are, of course, easy because you manage links in the controller group section of PH. But the responder section only allows you to view links, which may not exist in the controller if they were manually removed (the case with some of mine). Ideas on that?

Dunno about PH as I don't have it working yet B), but with HL orphan links show up in a maroon or red color and you just click "delete" then "send changes" and they're gone. Very nice.