Insteon, Z-wave or something else

[mark_anderson_us]

does eventghost let you control any types of devices(x10 zwave, insteon or UPB) like homeseer??

Thanks

Try here: http://www.eventghost.org/

Hi All

Thanks again for the replies

My biggest issue is the PC is software updates, crashes, and having to maintain it (OK it shouldn't need much). My Home Theater PC gets rebooted periodically and I frequently install updates, new software, etc. It's not "mission-critical" like my HA system would need to be. I do have an old G4 Mac mini that hosts my iTunes library (the media is on the WHS). I rarely update or reboot this, so I suppose I could give homeseer a try on that first. It's fanless and pretty low power. I also have one of those cube pc's that I never use, so I could put that in basement and turn off all auto-updates, etc.

So I'm still torn between insteon and z-wave. Isn't it a big advantage of new insteon stuff that you have both UPB and RF signalling, or am I missing something?

I want to be able to control many things with my logitech harmony (IR) remotes. I'm not planning too or interested in changing these to RF or another brand as they work brilliantly with all my home theater gear (in bedroom and HT and have a very high WAF).

The Insteon IRLinc looks good, but I haven't found anything for Z-wave. I basically want my "Watch Blu-ray" activity to turn off certain lights and dim others to a certain level (and eventually close the shades) in addition to what it already does.

I also like the Insteon 6 and 8 scene light switches (Keypadlinc)

Any suggestions or further z-wave vs. Insteon advice

Regards

Mark

 

[Digger]

does eventghost let you control any types of devices(x10 zwave, insteon or UPB) like homeseer??

Thanks

Try here: http://www.eventghost.org/

Hi All

Thanks again for the replies

My biggest issue is the PC is software updates, crashes, and having to maintain it (OK it shouldn't need much). My Home Theater PC gets rebooted periodically and I frequently install updates, new software, etc. It's not "mission-critical" like my HA system would need to be. I do have an old G4 Mac mini that hosts my iTunes library (the media is on the WHS). I rarely update or reboot this, so I suppose I could give homeseer a try on that first. It's fanless and pretty low power. I also have one of those cube pc's that I never use, so I could put that in basement and turn off all auto-updates, etc.

So I'm still torn between insteon and z-wave. Isn't it a big advantage of new insteon stuff that you have both UPB and RF signalling, or am I missing something?

I want to be able to control many things with my logitech harmony (IR) remotes. I'm not planning too or interested in changing these to RF or another brand as they work brilliantly with all my home theater gear (in bedroom and HT and have a very high WAF).

The Insteon IRLinc looks good, but I haven't found anything for Z-wave. I basically want my "Watch Blu-ray" activity to turn off certain lights and dim others to a certain level (and eventually close the shades) in addition to what it already does.

I also like the Insteon 6 and 8 scene light switches (Keypadlinc)

Any suggestions or further z-wave vs. Insteon advice

Regards

Mark

Insteon has the best looking keypads in my opinion, however, Insteon has the absolute worst quality in my opinion. Right now the 1000 watt dimmers have a problem where the lights they control flicker when there is Insteon traffic on the power line. Several people on the Smarthome Forum reported it and apparently told by SH Customer service not to bother exchanging them since all of their 1000 watt dimmers in stock have the same date code and same problem. You can go in SH site and buy all of the 1000 watt dimmers you want though and have the same problem people have reported and SH acknowledged exists.

This is not the first time the flicker problem has been noted (probably the first time in the 1000 watt dimmer). I dont remember what causes the problem (vaguely remember it being an incorrect diode). SH is slow to correct problems and does not stop selling defective products.

Zwave and UPB are not perfect but you really dont hear of any major problems. Search the internet and see how many people complain about Zwave and UPB put together compared to Insteon and decide if Insteon is right for you.

If you go with Insteon the ISY controllers are awesome. Money well spent (again my opinion).

 

[oberkc]

I want to be able to control many things with my logitech harmony (IR) remotes.

I am not a Z-wave user, only X-10 and insteon, so consider this bias. I am sure Z-wave is fine.

Still, one benefit of insteon, in my mind, is support for legacy X-10. In some cases, inexpensive X-10 devices are completely adequate (think motion sensors, desktop controllers). I think it very likely that your harmony remote have X-10 codes in the database. This may prove useful.

And, the ISY-99 can directly recieve IR signals and respond as you program. I use built-in X-10 commands in a URC remote to trigger scenes. One could, as you suggest, use the IRlinc, or use an RF extender direct to the ISY, or place the ISY within line of site of your harmony remote. You have many options. I like the ability to use TV remotes to trigger lighting scenes.

 

[walken100]

If you have hands on experience with this stuff skip this message....

I'm in the process of adding automation to my home. My home theater was my first step with everything controlled (all equipment and lights) from a URC remote via RF.

I've since moved on to the rest of the house.

One of the most valuable lessons I learned was from actual hands on experience. It turns out things I thought I needed I didn't and things I didn't realize were important were. Turns out two way communication isn't important for me in most of my locations. It also turns out that the feel of some of the x10 switches is unacceptable. As a result of this I've decided to "creep up" on different solutions.

I'm in the process of evaulating a couple different X10 switches and then going to install one insteon switch (controlled through X10) to see what I like and don't like. After that I'm going to move onto either UPB or Z-wave for a test. Since I can control the first fewl with x10 for now it is cheep to evaluate. If I find something I'm happy with I may stop. Regarding the remaining protocols I'll have to spend more money for a trial but I suspect an extra hundred or so bucks to gain some understanding is well worth it.

I did the same thing with cameras, used what I had (a web cam) to sample software and learn what was important then bought 1 IP cam to see if I liked it before I jump in and buy a suit of stuff.

I'm doing the same thing with software. I have no money in the software package I'm learning on. I now know enough that I'm willing to spend money and confident I'll get what I pay for. Personally I wouldnt have gotten this quality of knowledge without some hands on time.

So my recomendation would be to go automate a couple of lights and then start to pick. It will also give you perspective on some of the features you are asking about as well as on the answers you get from forums. These forums are an invaluable tool but not without that perspective.

Just my two cents. Again, if you have experience with some of this stuff then ignore my last.

Ok, just re-read your original question (post coffee). Looks like a pilot is in the plans. Great Plan.

 

[mark_anderson_us]

If you have hands on experience with this stuff skip this message....

Hi Barton

Thanks for the suggestion. I think it is a good plan. I had a play with X10 *many* years ago. My impression then was that it was a fledgling technology and most of the devices we're pretty cheap looking and feeling.

I'm going to look at a house again tonight that we're probably going to make an offer on (so at least I'll know what I have to automate and it's approximate layout).

The Z-Wave stuff looks like it's about double the price of Insteon (e.g. Insteon 6 button dimmer with 4 scenes is $69.)

Any recommendations on good brands for Z-waze lighting and thermostats?

Regards

mark

 

[walken100]

If you have hands on experience with this stuff skip this message....

Hi Barton

Thanks for the suggestion. I think it is a good plan. I had a play with X10 *many* years ago. My impression then was that it was a fledgling technology and most of the devices we're pretty cheap looking and feeling.

I'm going to look at a house again tonight that we're probably going to make an offer on (so at least I'll know what I have to automate and it's approximate layout).

The Z-Wave stuff looks like it's about double the price of Insteon (e.g. Insteon 6 button dimmer with 4 scenes is $69.)

Any recommendations on good brands for Z-waze lighting and thermostats?

Regards

mark

Not yet. I've got blinders on regarding z-wave until I finish looking at X-10 and insteon. Regarding Thermostats I've seen lots of stuff for lots of different protocols but I don't think I need it. I keep the thermostat at 58deg and just turn the fireplace on to heatup the living room so I'm going to automate the fireplace switch

I don't think of x10 as fledging. I think of it as the gateway drug of home automation.....

 

[mark_anderson_us]

Hi All

Been looking into Leviton products and have some questions.

To program the system it looks like I need *either* the VRCPG remote or a software package with RF dongle. Is this the case? If so, what would people recommend? (I have a small netbook and an iPad that I can carry round the house with a remote connection to the PC if I don't get the remote).

If I don't have the PC with ThinkEssentials (or other package), can timed events and triggers still be used? If so, what handles these?

I noticed the Vizia rf+ stuff is IR controlled, so does this mean I can use my Logitech Harmony IR remote.

What's the best iPhone/iPod/iPad software out there and what do I need to interface to? We have 4 such devices in our house, so if we can use these when on Wifi (assuming we have the PC controller or some other "bridge"), we can use these a lot (we have our phones with us most places we go in the house)

I read all the instructions that I could find for Leviton z-wave lighting/zone/scene controllers. I came across this:

"Zone is one load

An area is multiple zones. For example, a series of porch lights controlled by a single Leviton Vizia RF + device is a zone. An area could be the porch and/or any additional zones, such as landscape lights."

How does one define an area (say, proch, pathway and garage lights)?

What other brands are worth looking at besides Leviton?

Finally, what are my options for z-wave lighting control, if the house I buy doesn't have neutrals?

Sorry to bug you with all these questions.

Thanks in advance

mark

 

[nick_l]

I want to be able to control many things with my logitech harmony (IR) remotes.

Still, one benefit of insteon, in my mind, is support for legacy X-10. In some cases, inexpensive X-10 devices are completely adequate (think motion sensors, desktop controllers). I think it very likely that your harmony remote have X-10 codes in the database. This may prove useful.

Just remember that every Insteon device added is one more signal suck for the X-10 signal. While they can respond to X-10 signals, they do dont repeat them like they do for the insteon transmisions, and actually make the existing X-10 signal on the line weaker.

 

[nick_l]

If you have hands on experience with this stuff skip this message....

Hi Barton

Thanks for the suggestion. I think it is a good plan. I had a play with X10 *many* years ago. My impression then was that it was a fledgling technology and most of the devices we're pretty cheap looking and feeling.

I'm going to look at a house again tonight that we're probably going to make an offer on (so at least I'll know what I have to automate and it's approximate layout).

The Z-Wave stuff looks like it's about double the price of Insteon (e.g. Insteon 6 button dimmer with 4 scenes is $69.)

Any recommendations on good brands for Z-waze lighting and thermostats?

Regards

mark

Not yet. I've got blinders on regarding z-wave until I finish looking at X-10 and insteon. Regarding Thermostats I've seen lots of stuff for lots of different protocols but I don't think I need it. I keep the thermostat at 58deg and just turn the fireplace on to heatup the living room so I'm going to automate the fireplace switch

I don't think of x10 as fledging. I think of it as the gateway drug of home automation.....

X-10 was developed in 1975 so it's definitely not a fledgling technology. One of it's benifits, imo, is that it is a mature technology so all of it's limits are already known and usually are easy to work around for most installs. Also it's mature enough that the cost to produce is very low, making the devices very low. Its a good way to automate less important things in your house, while saving the big bucks for the important things.

 

[nick_l]

Any suggestions or further z-wave vs. Insteon advice

The only comment I will make re. Insteon is that I tried it several (3-4) years ago. I currently have a box of 20+ devices (some of which I never even bothered to take from the boxes) somewhere in the depths of my basement. I hope I never see that box again!

 

[oberkc]

Just remember that every Insteon device added is one more signal suck for the X-10 signal. While they can respond to X-10 signals, they do dont repeat them like they do for the insteon transmisions, and actually make the existing X-10 signal on the line weaker.

Technically, I suppose, you are correct. In my house, however, I have not noticed this to be a problem. But I do not have one of those large houses that so many on these forums seems to have. My install is about 40 insteon devices at this point, maybe a little less. My use of X-10, however, is limited to motion detectors (with the RF receiver being close to my ISY-99 controller) and keypads. I also still use quite a bit during the Christmas light season.

While I have experienced my share of other devices causing communications issues for both X-10 and insteon, once cleared up, both work well for me in the quantities I use. My installation still includes, however, an X-10 phase coupler/repeater, which may help the X-10 signals.

 

[pete_c]

I'm still running primarily X10 & Insteon. X10 since the late 70's. Changed out all of the legacy X10 wall switches to Insteon when it first was introduced. I continued to primarily control the light switches via X10 (OPII panel). I added x-10 & Insteon bridges, X-10 filters and an X10 signal amplifier. Never noticed any flicker with the 1000 watt Insteon dimmer switch I installed for a 12 lamp chandelier (which I dim every night). Secondarily control the Insteon switches with unique events via the HA server. I also had the paddle problem with a few switches but never noticed because they were primarily controlled remotely. I still like the fact that the Insteon switches can be controlled via X10 and Insteon protocols and utilizing RF for meshing (even though I didn't want to have more RF in the house). It makes for a nice transition from legacy X10 to newer Insteon.

I am currently moving towards UPB in the MW migrating all of the Insteon switches because I want to update the technology some. In FL recently installed a OPII panel and purchased used Leviton X10 switches. They are working fine there right now. I am thinking of maybe installing a very small footprint HA server in FL. Starting initially with a weather station then later tapping into the OPII for more automation.