Internet enabled thermostat vs....

[walken100]

Ok, thinking about going to a controllable thermostat. I travel a lot and with my kids leaving the AC on a thermostat that I can remotely access would have paid for itself pretty quick.

So the question, I've seen internet enabled thermostats that are accessible over the web. Any experience? Any thoughts on advantages or disadvantages?

Currently using X10, Elve, URC remotes and Panasonic IP cameras for lighting, security (very basic) and home theater automation.

I like the idea of having built in web pages that require little work on my part for access (might be a little too enamoured with the whole IP enabled concept).

Your thoughts are appreciated, thanks!

 

[Lagerhead]

. . .I've seen internet enabled thermostats that are accessible over the web. Any experience? Any thoughts on advantages or disadvantages? . . .

I have been happy with the Proliphix thermostats. They are stand-alone units so they can directly replace existing wall thermostats without problems in conventional HVAC installations. The hardest part might be running your Cat5/6 to the thermostat locations.

They have onboard management web pages usable from inside and outside your network. Proliphix has a DDNS-type of service if you need it. The real advantage in my opinion is the very robust programming interface which allows control of every important feature of the thermostat. At least a few of the popular HA systems have drivers for Proliphix. If you are inclined, it is very simple to code for the them directly.

Many here on CT like the tightly-integrated thermostat types, some of which are proprietary to a specific HVAC controller. I have an Elk M1 which supports some of these, but I have not seen the particular benefit of doing this, probably because I had already integrated the Proliphix thermostats into my automation in other ways.

 

[walken100]

The hardest part might be running your Cat5/6 to the thermostat locations.

Thanks for the input. This is the way I've been thinking about the problem. The idea of a fully integrated system is nice but not essential. Also I've been looking at the Bayweb thermostat. It is a two piece assy that allows the "brain" to be located near the hvac equipment which is next to my a/v and internet distribution rack. This makes wiring cat6 to the thermostat a non issue for me. Also this thermostat support additional IO and reporting features that would make leak and freeze detection and reporting simple as well.

 

[Ira]

The Proliphix t'stats say they have "Single stage heat and A/C support". Does this mean they can't properly control my two-stage A/C compressor? How about the variable speed blower?

My current t'stat (Lennox ComfortSense 7000) has really loud relays, I can hear several clicks every time the A/C comes on from pretty much anywhere in my home if the home is fairly quite. It still annoys me after more than a year of getting used to it. Do the Proliphix t'stats have noisy relays. I have considered going to the Honeywell IAQ series because the relays are separate from the control screen and can be mounted elsewhere.

Ira

 

[Lagerhead]

The Proliphix t'stats say they have "Single stage heat and A/C support". Does this mean they can't properly control my two-stage A/C compressor? How about the variable speed blower?

These might not work in your situation, but I don't know -- best if you ask Proliphix directly.

Do the Proliphix t'stats have noisy relays.

There is an audible click, but less noisy than what you describe.

 

[OWG]

The hardest part might be running your Cat5/6 to the thermostat locations.

...I've been looking at the Bayweb thermostat. It is a two piece assy that allows the "brain" to be located near the hvac equipment which is next to my a/v and internet distribution rack.

I installed one of these last winter and could not be more delighted. Coupled with wireless occupancy sensors it allows for some simple rules and is a real good bang for the buck.

 

[Lagerhead]

...I've been looking at the Bayweb thermostat. It is a two piece assy that allows the "brain" to be located near the hvac equipment which is next to my a/v and internet distribution rack.

Interesting These were not available when I installed my Proliphix thermostats.

I would consider Bayweb if I were buying today but I would want more information about:
(1) The tight integration with their web service, which seems to be mandatory (Proliphix thermostats are fully stand-alone IP network devices. Using the Proliphix web service is entirely optional.)
(2) Reliance on X10 motion detection
(3) Need to upgrade to premium service level to avoid "advertisements"?

 

[Ira]

From Proliphix when asked about controlling an HVAC system with a two-stage compressor...

We have several models capable of working with a dual-stage, variable speed blower, gas/heat furnace. If you are looking for a wireless version that communicates with an existing wireless network, I would recommend the IMT550w. This model features alarming (high/low temp alert as well as air filter changes), time of day fan scheduling, humidity sensing and control, as well as the ability to run up to 3 external sensors to allow for averaging of temperatures and/or individual alarming of individual sensors to monitor separate locations.

We also offer the IMT550c, which connects to your network via cat5 ethernet cable. In this case, you would run Ethernet cable from your router to your thermostat location to provide the internet access.

The IMT550c/w is their commercial network thermostat series. It lists for $595 (wireless) or $545 (wired). The API for the IMT series has not been released, and it is different than the API used for the NT series. I'm am waiting for an answer to whether or not it will be released at some point or will remain proprietary.

There's also the NT120e/NT160e that support two-stage units. Quite a bit cheaper, but they are the old, non-touchscreen thermostats. :huh:

 

[walken100]

I installed one of these last winter and could not be more delighted. Coupled with wireless occupancy sensors it allows for some simple rules and is a real good bang for the buck.

A few questions:

- Do you have to use their web service to access the thermostat from within the houst (IE from a computer in another room)?
- Do you use there basic or premium web service?
- Have you integrated it with any other automation software/hardware?
- I assume the wireless occupancy sensor is optional?

Thanks

 

[walken100]

I would consider Bayweb if I were buying today but I would want more information about:
(1) The tight integration with their web service, which seems to be mandatory (Proliphix thermostats are fully stand-alone IP network devices. Using the Proliphix web service is entirely optional.)

Good thought. Just talked with Bay and you are correct. The device does not publish web pages and is not integrated into any automation software (that they were aware of). So you are very tied to their service. This may not be that bad but it is going to make me reevaluate my ability to get Cat6 to my thermostat location.

Thanks.

Ps. Occupancy sensors are optional.

 

[OWG]

I see that you have alreasy been in contact with BayWeb, so my response is not timely

- Do you have to use their web service to access the thermostat from within the houst (IE from a computer in another room)?
Two methods to adjust the Thermostat, physically at the key pad or their web service. They have a mobile phone access service.
- Do you use their basic or premium web service?
Basic web service.
- Have you integrated it with any other automation software/hardware?
No. You have the option of using a input from your HA system to trigger occupancy or alerts. I do have a water sensor connected as a hardwired sensor for alerting purposes, relying in their web service.
- I assume the wireless occupancy sensor is optional?
Yes. You don’t have to use occupancy sensing.

 

[etc6849]

Does the thermostat itself have to directly serve the webpage? There a many serial controlled thermostats that are pretty good (still expensive though).

Since I'm on a budget, I bought a Wayne Dalton Z-Wave thermostat when asihome had it onsale (I remember it being under $65, shipping included). It's a simple thermostat (no hard buttons for schedules etc...) and I use my PC to bridge the gap between it and the internet via the VRC0P RS232 Z-Wave secondary controller (~$80).

Now that cost isn't as big of deal, I'm thinking about upgrading to a thermostat with hard buttons for scheduling that uses a robust RS232 protocol that my PC would then interpret and track any scheduling changes. 123 is working on a great module for Premise that does this with the RC-2000:
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...mp;#entry135796

PS: Did you integrate your universal remotes with Elve? e.g. does the universal stuff you have talk to Elve and control devices connected to your PC?

 

[walken100]

Does the thermostat itself have to directly serve the webpage? There a many serial controlled thermostats that are pretty good (still expensive though).

Since I'm on a budget, I bought a Wayne Dalton Z-Wave thermostat when asihome had it onsale (I remember it being under $65, shipping included). It's a simple thermostat (no hard buttons for schedules etc...) and I use my PC to bridge the gap between it and the internet via the VRC0P RS232 Z-Wave secondary controller (~$80).

Now that cost isn't as big of deal, I'm thinking about upgrading to a thermostat with hard buttons for scheduling that uses a robust RS232 protocol that my PC would then interpret and track any scheduling changes. 123 is working on a great module for Premise that does this with the RC-2000:
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...mp;#entry135796

PS: Did you integrate your universal remotes with Elve? e.g. does the universal stuff you have talk to Elve and control devices connected to your PC?

Serving webpages is the part that I'm enamoured with. No programing and one less failure point for remote access (PC running automation software). However I also like have an all in one so the webpages are more of a back up.

I did not integrate my remotes into elve (yet). I use my remotes to send x10 signals to control stuff I want. So far the focus has been on theater and basement lighting. I use a URC HF remote to talk to their base that talks to A/V components and an X10 IR reciever that are in a closet. Super handy and easy.

 

[etc6849]

If you're looking for an all in one web solution without throwing out a bunch of non-compatible devices, a PC based solution like Premise (free and very open) or Elve is the way to go. You do have to know a little vbscript to use Premise at its full potential, but it's easy to pick up if you're already computer proficient.

Everything you're talking about can be done without coding though as Premise automatically generates the web interface for you and it's nice looking (http://www.cocoontech.com/wiki/Premise). You just import drivers others have already created or use the add-ins that come with Premise (X10 MR26a etc...).

I would invest in an industrial grade mini ITX PC if you're serious about using a PC though. My XP machine ran for 8 months without an issue; the only reason I shut it down was to move. There's also blade servers with redundant power supplies etc if you're really worried about reliability.

PS: Did you integrate your universal remotes with Elve? e.g. does the universal stuff you have talk to Elve and control devices connected to your PC?

Serving webpages is the part that I'm enamoured with. No programing and one less failure point for remote access (PC running automation software). However I also like have an all in one so the webpages are more of a back up.

I did not integrate my remotes into elve (yet). I use my remotes to send x10 signals to control stuff I want. So far the focus has been on theater and basement lighting. I use a URC HF remote to talk to their base that talks to A/V components and an X10 IR reciever that are in a closet. Super handy and easy.

 

[Osler]

BartonWalken:

I wrote the plug-in for the proliphix thermostat for Elve. I have 2 NT20 units that have been in service for 2 years now without problems. I do not use the access service provided by Proliphix but do have rules set up in my HA software to prevent excessive heating or cooling. These thermostats are fantastic and I would highly recommend them. Scheduling is easily accomplished on the LAN prior to going out of town. If more scheduling is needed via the Elve plug-in, this can be easily added by me. I don't think you can go wrong with this option.

Osler