ipad

[jharrell]

iPhone, for specific features using the built-in ipod functions does give the appearance of a multi-tasking device, but that same functionality is not availble to all your applications. You need to hit the home button and then relaunch the app. However, this can be added with updates in the future as Mac OSX does have this feature and Apple does claim the iPhone OS is a form of MAC OSX. But it's not presently there.

The iPhone uses OSX with a different shell. It definitely can and has multiple processes running like any Unix system and in fact can support multiple users as well. Apple has said multiple times why they artificially limited third party apps from running in the background, battery life and stability. Windows mobile and Android both suffer from being able to load a bunch of third party apps up and just one poorly written one can drain the battery in short order or make the device feel sluggish by eating cpu cycles silently. If you ever used Window Mobile I am sure you have used task killers to clean up background apps. For us technical users we can deal with this process management and tracking down a rogue app, your average non technical user will not understand what a process is or why the battery is going dead, they blame the device since there is no obvious way to determine which third party app is at fault nor do they care they just want it to work.

I have hope Apple will implement some way for at least one or two third party apps in a future update, but they may not unless they can be satisfied that the battery life can be controlled properly. I imagine if they did it would probably be some even more strict approval process in the app store where they test the app over a longer period of time for background stability and power consumption.

The impact on home automation is that if a native app is devloped (not just simply browser access to a HA webpage) and you are task switching around to different applications, you won't be able to get back to the same spot without drilling back down again. Perhaps not a show stopper, but it does have an impact.

This is not true. Apples SDK is very clear in recommending that app's should save their state when the close message is sent to them, then reload that state when reopened. Now it is up to the developer to implement saving state and loading state, because for performance reasons, the brute force method of saving and loading all of an app state in ram to flash would be too slow compared to just a few kilobytes of true application state such as where you are in a menu structure etc that only the developer knows and can decode properly.

This does play into multi-tasking, the original iPhone only has 128megs of ram, the new 3gs only 256megs, iPad is unknown I would guess 256 or 512megs. With 128MB of ram the iPhone only has about 40MB free left for a third party app after the OS with its background processes loaded(phone,sms etc.) and no page file. In order to multi task third party apps, they would need to all fit into 40MB of ram at once. Again if you ever used Window Mobile I am sure you have run into the common out of memory errors that plague it when you loaded too many apps at once since it also had such a small amount of ram, I believe Android tries to kill apps in low memory conditions. Apple avoided this problem completely, everything about the design is resource conservation, to keep cost down and battery life up, leaving persistent state up to the developer, since the developer knows how their app works.

As for flash pages in the browser? This is an issue. Negating it buy saying may sites have non-flash content means for some that they'll need to redesign their own home browser configuration if they had used lots of flash based content.

Apple is purposely ignoring Flash. They do not want a third parties code running in their browser possibly destabilizing or creating an exploit in it and the user blaming Apple for it while Apple is waiting for Adobe to make a fix. Apple along with Google are pushing hard for HTML5 which will cover what Flash is needed for today (Playing video, vector graphics, canvas, etc.) so they can control the code base that implements it.

This maybe a mistake on Apples part since flash is so entrenched, they are gambling their mobile user base has enough clout to push websites to design against standards only and make apps for special features. I bet the CEO of NY Times was asking their technical staff why their webpage was broken on the iPad after the keynote demo and they had to explain they difference between Flash and html and why they use it.

 

[scriptx]

I see one major issue with this device in terms of home automation: no replaceable battery. While you may get 2 years on a battery before the battery life degrades to a point that it becomes an issue, you'll have to live without the device for a couple of weeks to get a battery replaced. This may be just an issue for me though, I know people will likely upgrade devices every couple of years, I typically don't.

 

[damage]

This maybe a mistake on Apples part since flash is so entrenched, they are gambling their mobile user base has enough clout to push websites to design against standards only and make apps for special features. I bet the CEO of NY Times was asking their technical staff why their webpage was broken on the iPad after the keynote demo and they had to explain they difference between Flash and html and why they use it.

adobe's response to the flash-less ipad http://bit.ly/aqXQ4C

 

[damage]

apple's hanky panky with ipad promo materials - now you see flash, now you don't http://www.pcworld.com/article/188210/

 

[znelbok]

What annoys me is that everyone thinks this is revolutionary (well not everyone, but if you listened to the media hype it is)

To me it is too big, not by much, but just a bit too big. 7" would have probably been a lot more manageable as a portable device.

Basically, all I can see it brining to the masses is a ebook reader - who has heard of Kindle or the Sony e-reader and others out there, not many. Jobs' is lucky that he can get press coverage for a crappy device like this and that does all his advertising for him.

Where was Archos' [as an example] mention in the local news - didn't see anything, but they have an awesome looking set of products in the 5 and 9 - where the run natively runs Win7, which should be easier to get any one of our HA apps running on. While I have not used the Archos 9 so I cant comment ion its performance, I am sure using it for a dedicated HA interface should be just fine.

Overall, the iPad does not bring anything new to the market, its just a reaction to the request of the uneducated masses. What it will do is educate people in the technologies that they have been missing because some big whop-de-do company has finally pushed it into their face.

Time will tell though, a lot of sentiment out their calls this a FAIL, but people will talk with their wallets and show support by buying the iPad.

Mick

 

[jharrell]

Basically, all I can see it brining to the masses is a ebook reader - who has heard of Kindle or the Sony e-reader and others out there, not many. Jobs' is lucky that he can get press coverage for a crappy device like this and that does all his advertising for him.

Amazon has sold over 2.5million Kindles, there is a market. I know a few people who have Kindles, they all love them, every single one says they will probably sell it and get an iPad. Basically the common theme is, the Kindle is great but why not have something that can browse the web , get email and run apps too, without the hassle of a PC. Also the backlight is a selling point too for some, the Kindle has none.

Where was Archos' [as an example] mention in the local news - didn't see anything, but they have an awesome looking set of products in the 5 and 9 - where the run natively runs Win7, which should be easier to get any one of our HA apps running on. While I have not used the Archos 9 so I cant comment ion its performance, I am sure using it for a dedicated HA interface should be just fine.

Cool device, but half the battery life of the iPad and thats with WiFi turned off. Also you can't even change the wallpaper on Windows 7 Starter, even the iPad can do that . More storage in the same price range with a 60GB harddrive, but 15GB is taken up with Windows, the iPad OS is around 200MB, so 16GB is actually something usable on an iPad and it is flash.

Overall, the iPad does not bring anything new to the market, its just a reaction to the request of the uneducated masses. What it will do is educate people in the technologies that they have been missing because some big whop-de-do company has finally pushed it into their face.

Time will tell though, a lot of sentiment out their calls this a FAIL, but people will talk with their wallets and show support by buying the iPad.

Same things where said about the iPhone, it what also true then, it did nothing new at the time and had some pretty severe limitations, but it didn't matter, just like it didn't matter with the iPod when it was introduced. If you believe the iPhone and iPods success was based on good marketing only, then your making the same mistake Steve Ballmer keeps making.

Most people do not understand how computers work, just like most people don't understand how their car works. They don't understand processes, persistent vs non persistent storage etc, they don't care, they paid a lot of money for the device and they want it to work period. These "uneducated masses" as you call them make Apple a lot of money, and Apple tries to make things for them, not the minority of people who do understand how a computer works and want the control over it that a typical desktop OS provides.

Your completely right though, the market will decide weather the iPad will work or not, I am not 100% confident it will, missing flash might be a big problem for them, although it doesn't seem to be hurting the iPhone. Time will tell.

 

[sic0048]

Your completely right though, the market will decide weather the iPad will work or not, I am not 100% confident it will, missing flash might be a big problem for them, although it doesn't seem to be hurting the iPhone. Time will tell.

This might be true, but there are a lot of limitations that people live with on the iPhone because it is a smart phone. To have included so many of these limitations on the iPad may be problematic because I would think the average consumer that is interested in the iPad wants it to work more like a computer and less like a phone. The people complaining about it now are educated "technophobes" so we at least know the limitations. It will be interesting to see non-computer geek reactions when they buy the iPad and it cannot do some of the simple task (or browse some of their favorite sites properly) due to these limitations. This might just be the beginning of the negativity facing the iPad. Of course, the public may absolutely love the iPad and overlook it's design faults.

I love the competition that the iPad brings to the market and all manufactures can benefit from the added exposure Apple is bringing to new tablet style devices.

 

[damage]

I love the competition that the iPad brings to the market and all manufactures can benefit from the added exposure Apple is bringing to new tablet style devices.

definitely competition for a rock http://www.techcrunch.com/2010/01/30/ipad-v-a-rock/

more useful comparisons http://gizmodo.com/5459308/

 

[nick_l]

Also the backlight is a selling point too for some, the Kindle has none.

Yes a backlight in a device marketed (at least partially) for reading is a selling point, just like "Plus-sized iPod Touch, now with more eye-strain" is a selling point.

While we're at it, I usually let these go by, but...

If you believe the iPhone and iPods success was based on good marketing only, then your making the same mistake Steve Ballmer keeps making.

Which mistake is that, exactly? The one where he runs a company that actually PAYS dividends to its sharholders? The one where his company has the number one selling gaming console? The one where he runs a company that makes an OS that has over 90% percent of the market, or where the latest version of that OS sold more copies in 5 months than its nearest competitor, OS X sold in NINE YEARS? The one where he has a company that makes software that virtually every fortune 500 company runs? The mistake that has his company marketing the NUMBER ONE SELLING SOFTWARE OF ALL TIME, Office? Pssst, what a loser that guy is.

BTW, you may want to go ask Sony how having the number one selling portable music player, The Walkman, worked out for them. When you're done, go talk to Motorola about the Razr.

 

[claymahaffey]

Amazon has sold over 2.5million Kindles, there is a market. I know a few people who have Kindles, they all love them, every single one says they will probably sell it and get an iPad. Basically the common theme is, the Kindle is great but why not have something that can browse the web , get email and run apps too, without the hassle of a PC.

Well, since you don't technically know me you don't have to change your statement going forward, but I am not interested in an iPAD to replace my Kindle. A couple of key reasons include:
- Battery life: 10 hours? Seriously? I charge my Kindle every couple of weeks. Ten hours won't even get me to Narita when the batteries are new.
- Reading: Since it is a book reader, I think it should do this first and best. Backlighting is actually a negative for reading and the print quality of eink is simply perfect. No LCD/CRT/ETC device I've been privileged to see has come close.
- The "Disappear Factor": A Kindle simply disappears while you are reading. I don't expect (although this is speculation on my part) that the iPAD will do that. I've not seen other formats do as good a job at it, but I'm willing to admit that I should hold on my judgement. (But I can't imagine Steve allowing one of his babies not being the center of attention )

I think it is too big, too. But I haven't held one and since I own three iPhones and know how good a job they did with it, I won't make a judgment on the form factor until I get to experience it.

Now, I might buy one as an automation controller around the house. But there is that pesky closed-system thing...oh well.

I like the iSlate. Open systems FTW!

 

[twilo123]

for any browser based app i don't believe you will have this issue. the browser should run full screen automatically. this issue is for native apps only from what i have seen. the scale function for native apps uses the opengl chip so if you did not hard code sizes it will re-factor decently in most cases.

It should be mentioned that although the iPad will run iPhone apps, according to Apple you can choose what mode you want... stretched or small and centered.

The J9AE iPhone app was written to use the full screen size whatever that may be... it asks the hardware what the screen size is before displaying anything. However it appears that Apple may still be telling iPhone apps running on the iPad that the screen resolution is only 320x480 to provide maximum compatibility. This would mean that you will likely need a new app with the "iPad setting" activated so it can truly take advantage of the higher resolution. Although if this is true it is unfortunate, but we'll make sure the J9AE app runs on the iPad at full resolution in the end.

From what I hear, Apple is also working on a universal app mode but apparently it is not complete yet.

Johnny

 

[twilo123]

iPhone, for specific features using the built-in ipod functions does give the appearance of a multi-tasking device, but that same functionality is not availble to all your applications. You need to hit the home button and then relaunch the app. However, this can be added with updates in the future as Mac OSX does have this feature and Apple does claim the iPhone OS is a form of MAC OSX. But it's not presently there.

The iPhone uses OSX with a different shell. It definitely can and has multiple processes running like any Unix system and in fact can support multiple users as well. Apple has said multiple times why they artificially limited third party apps from running in the background, battery life and stability. Windows mobile and Android both suffer from being able to load a bunch of third party apps up and just one poorly written one can drain the battery in short order or make the device feel sluggish by eating cpu cycles silently. If you ever used Window Mobile I am sure you have used task killers to clean up background apps. For us technical users we can deal with this process management and tracking down a rogue app, your average non technical user will not understand what a process is or why the battery is going dead, they blame the device since there is no obvious way to determine which third party app is at fault nor do they care they just want it to work.

I have hope Apple will implement some way for at least one or two third party apps in a future update, but they may not unless they can be satisfied that the battery life can be controlled properly. I imagine if they did it would probably be some even more strict approval process in the app store where they test the app over a longer period of time for background stability and power consumption.

i have not found anyone who knows what shell the ipad is running. it could be the exact same as iphone but it could be another flavor. there could be api's which are specific to the ipad. what Apple officially notes as they reasons for their decisions and reality can sometimes be very different things. for instance any battery life issue could have easily been resolved in this large of a form factor in various ways including removable batteries being the easiest. i didn't buy that excuse on the iphone/itouch and i don't buy it now on the ipad even more so. they have had plenty of time to resolve the issue along with a totally different form factor to implement hardware solutions if need be.

The impact on home automation is that if a native app is devloped (not just simply browser access to a HA webpage) and you are task switching around to different applications, you won't be able to get back to the same spot without drilling back down again. Perhaps not a show stopper, but it does have an impact.

huh? i switch back and forth in browsers for years now via tabs. the iphone sdk uses tabs also. i have to disagree with this statement. you can always use soft buttons to go back also. for instance in our iphone/itouch tv remote we have a 'previous' button which takes you to the last channel you were on previously. we could easily keep track of all the channels changed while the app was open and allow you to jump back to different points.

This is not true. Apples SDK is very clear in recommending that app's should save their state when the close message is sent to them, then reload that state when reopened. Now it is up to the developer to implement saving state and loading state, because for performance reasons, the brute force method of saving and loading all of an app state in ram to flash would be too slow compared to just a few kilobytes of true application state such as where you are in a menu structure etc that only the developer knows and can decode properly.

This does play into multi-tasking, the original iPhone only has 128megs of ram, the new 3gs only 256megs, iPad is unknown I would guess 256 or 512megs. With 128MB of ram the iPhone only has about 40MB free left for a third party app after the OS with its background processes loaded(phone,sms etc.) and no page file. In order to multi task third party apps, they would need to all fit into 40MB of ram at once. Again if you ever used Window Mobile I am sure you have run into the common out of memory errors that plague it when you loaded too many apps at once since it also had such a small amount of ram, I believe Android tries to kill apps in low memory conditions. Apple avoided this problem completely, everything about the design is resource conservation, to keep cost down and battery life up, leaving persistent state up to the developer, since the developer knows how their app works.

everything is for control IMO. this issue could be easily overcome with more ram or allowing external hardware considerations like any other mobile phone/mid on the market.

As for flash pages in the browser? This is an issue. Negating it buy saying may sites have non-flash content means for some that they'll need to redesign their own home browser configuration if they had used lots of flash based content.

Apple is purposely ignoring Flash. They do not want a third parties code running in their browser possibly destabilizing or creating an exploit in it and the user blaming Apple for it while Apple is waiting for Adobe to make a fix. Apple along with Google are pushing hard for HTML5 which will cover what Flash is needed for today (Playing video, vector graphics, canvas, etc.) so they can control the code base that implements it.

This maybe a mistake on Apples part since flash is so entrenched, they are gambling their mobile user base has enough clout to push websites to design against standards only and make apps for special features. I bet the CEO of NY Times was asking their technical staff why their webpage was broken on the iPad after the keynote demo and they had to explain they difference between Flash and html and why they use it.

let's try this from a different angle possibly. there are tons of flash based games out there. the iphone/itouch is turning out to be a huge moneymaker on the game side. if flash ran on iphone/itouch don't you think that might take a good bite out of native games. any significant threat needs to be taken seriously and flash is no different than any competitor IMO.

 

[pete_c]

The sales appear to be driven by hype.

The media jumps on the bandwagon with writing stories relating to frenzied consumers waiting unpatiently for it to be released to the public.

 

[jharrell]

Yes a backlight in a device marketed (at least partially) for reading is a selling point, just like "Plus-sized iPod Touch, now with more eye-strain" is a selling point.

Show me the science where a backlight causes eye strain. It is urban legend and Amazon will surely profess it. Eyestrain is caused by to much contrast between the ambient light and the item you are looking at. If the iPad is like the iPhone it will have an ambient light sensor that adjusts the backlight to the environment. You would get eyestrain from and Kindle too if the booklight you strapped to it was too bright in a dark room.

While we're at it, I usually let these go by, but...

If you believe the iPhone and iPods success was based on good marketing only, then your making the same mistake Steve Ballmer keeps making.

Which mistake is that, exactly? The one where he runs a company that actually PAYS dividends to its sharholders? The one where his company has the number one selling gaming console? The one where he runs a company that makes an OS that has over 90% percent of the market, or where the latest version of that OS sold more copies in 5 months than its nearest competitor, OS X sold in NINE YEARS? The one where he has a company that makes software that virtually every fortune 500 company runs? The mistake that has his company marketing the NUMBER ONE SELLING SOFTWARE OF ALL TIME, Office? Pssst, what a loser that guy is.

BTW, you may want to go ask Sony how having the number one selling portable music player, The Walkman, worked out for them. When you're done, go talk to Motorola about the Razr.

The mistake where they lose both the mp3 player market and the smartphone markets after YEARS of a head start. Here is a prime example: http://www.spike.com/video/ballmer-laughs-at/2815499

Maybe your right MS should just stick to Xbox,Office and Windows since they are good at it and stop trying to fail at music players, smart phones, and search engines. Jeez you think I attacked your religion when I said Ballmer made a mistake, I never said he was a loser.

Ask yourself why the Xbox is such a successful platform? Lets see, runs one app at a time, they control the market place, games must be approved by MS, they control the hardware. Why is the Xbox more successful than the PC in the game market? Because you buy a game pop it in, and it works, period, no drivers, no viruses, consistent performance. Sounds very familiar.

 

[jharrell]

i have not found anyone who knows what shell the ipad is running. it could be the exact same as iphone but it could be another flavor. there could be api's which are specific to the ipad. what Apple officially notes as they reasons for their decisions and reality can sometimes be very different things. for instance any battery life issue could have easily been resolved in this large of a form factor in various ways including removable batteries being the easiest. i didn't buy that excuse on the iphone/itouch and i don't buy it now on the ipad even more so. they have had plenty of time to resolve the issue along with a totally different form factor to implement hardware solutions if need be.

No the SDK is out, it is the iPhone OS v 3.2, which means its running the same shell which is Springboard. There are a whole bunch of new API's in 3.2 that could potentially be used in the iPhone too, but some of them would not work well because of the screen size.

everything is for control IMO. this issue could be easily overcome with more ram or allowing external hardware considerations like any other mobile phone/mid on the market.

More ram cost more, removable batteries cost more, multiple programs running at once uses more cpu cycles hence lower battery life. This is physics not Apple's perceived plot to control you. They could make the device bigger, weigh more and more expensive to "easily" overcome those issues, but they made trade offs. Consumers will tell them with their wallets if it was the right trade offs.

let's try this from a different angle possibly. there are tons of flash based games out there. the iphone/itouch is turning out to be a huge moneymaker on the game side. if flash ran on iphone/itouch don't you think that might take a good bite out of native games. any significant threat needs to be taken seriously and flash is no different than any competitor IMO.

I would somewhat agree, they definitely seem to be pushing the idea if you want to make anything beyond a standard web page it needs to be an app, I am not sure how much money they make on the app store, but they have said in the past the 30% cut was to cover their cost of running the thing, all their profit comes from selling the device. It is one of the lowest cuts of any "app store", Blackberry, MS with Handago, Xbox Live, even Kindle took much higher cuts until competition from Apple.