Keep sheetrockers from cutting wires

[Bzncrewjr]

Pete, why did you do wall speakers vs. ceiling speakers.    I was thinking of doing all ceiling speakers except in the home theater.   I've seen wall speakers and they are....there.   You see them.
 
And my idea was to also wire everything possible and then figure out how to connect it to something once we are in there.  Omnipro seems to be my initial choice today 2015.   May change later.
Cat5 everywhere for video and data.   Been experimenting with various IP cameras lately 
 
--Russ

 

[pete_c]

why did you do wall speakers vs. ceiling speakers ?
 
Cuz I got a deal for the wall speakers by the case in the early 2000's.  Purchased a few cases. 
 
They are sort of big on the walls and you do notice them.
 
Will post a few pics. 
 
I have used in ceiling speakers for multimedia stuff.

 

[wkearney99]

I already had some analog cameras, but I strung CAT5E along with their wires.  That'll make it easier to replace them at some point.
 
Wall speakers take away space for artwork.  So plan accordingly.  Ceiling speakers aren't ideal for watching TV/movies.   They're more for background music.  Unless, of course, you're going with a planned solution like Dolby Atmos.  Which I would like to do in a theater space we have, at some point.
 
Also consider what's on the other side.  Even though I wired for it, I decided against putting in the ceiling speakers for a family room space due to the bedroom above it.  I went with a soundbar under the TV instead and that's been a good enough solution for the casual viewing we do with that TV.  
 
There's also acoustic insulation in-between most interior walls and the floor joists.  This helps cut down on noise quite a bit.  It's not the fully de-coupled arrangement (green glue, hat channel, isolators, etc).  That's overkill for anything other than a theater or listening room.  

 

[Bzncrewjr]

Hey Pete, do you recall how expensive it was to have the alarm company do your contact wiring?
Part of me is a bit afraid of messing that up and you mentioned they did a pro job on the end points.  It might be smarter than using my new house a learning lab.
 
Also, I've seen these security screens.   We leave windows open in the summer and this seems like a great idea.  Anyone have experience with them?  How to integrate with fixed switches?
 
--Russ

 

[Del91574]

I used to manufacture those screens. About 15-20K that I built in about 3 years...

 

[pete_c]

Hey Pete, do you recall how expensive it was to have the alarm company do your contact wiring?
Part of me is a bit afraid of messing that up and you mentioned they did a pro job on the end points.  It might be smarter than using my new house a learning lab.
 
No as it was included with the GC stuff and a supposition that I would go with the same company for the alarm panel. 
 
I did get a quote at the time and after the build for an alarm panel installation with bells and whistles.  The quote was over $20K.  My DIY OPII installation for a fully loaded panel was much less than $20K.
 
A few years back helped a friend LV wire his new home.  He did do Anderson everthing there and I ran wires to the frames only as he didn't want me to mess with the window frames.
 
They were alarm wiring gurus as they covered every door and window home running it to a new com closet.  I did change their plans as originally they were putting the alarm panel wiring to the master bedroom.  I built a wiring closet in the middle of the home.  Today there is an OPII can there and it is above the Leviton automation can.  I did the rest of the LV wiring which was much easier than alarm wiring.
 
Also, I've seen these security screens.   We leave windows open in the summer and this seems like a great idea.  Anyone have experience with them?  How to integrate with fixed switches?
 
Personally here the screens were included in a home built in the late 70's.  The house was 3 stories with a look out basement which was multiple windows on two sides sort of facing a cliff of sorts.  Never had a problem with the screens.
It was only two wires per screen done up in room loops. (zones).  Well the house was on a court surrounded by water.
 
 
 
I never played with the alarm panel and did automate there with X10 in the 1980's.   The alarm wiring there was also included with the build.  The window frames were wood and the screens had a little cable which plugged in to the wood frame you could see very easily. 
 
Issues though was that everything was looped to single runs to the alarm panel there which didn't really give me any granularity.  (but never paid attention). 
 
As Del mentions above the screen thing today would be an expensive endeavor.

 

[Bzncrewjr]

Quick google show some alarm screen prices approx $150 per.   I wouldn't do every screen...at least now.   Maybe lower floor master bedroom and perhaps a few windows facing prevailing winds.   The other option I've seen is partial open window magnets so windows can be left open a few inches (too small for a person to climb in).   I'll have to explore options.
 
Wiring windows doesn't look like it's that hard.  However reading threads here there seems to be challenges encountered.     I will probably seek out some wiring quotes for alarm contacts.   My experience with alarm companies is they make lots of money on the monitoring.  That's where they want you locked in.   We had an ADT wireless system put in a house.   ADT are criminals.   $750 for a lame few motion detectors and 3 door sensors.  Plus lock into $50/month monitoring contract.   And they billed us twice for the install.   System wasn't anything special.   Simple panel.
 
I know this the wrong forum but I'll ask anyway.   We have pets that wander the house at night.   Does this exclude motion detectors?   I suppose we could put them in garages and places pets (and people) don't walk at night.
In my opinion, the ADT folks put them in because it's much easier to put one in a room than to alarm all the windows in the room.
 
--Russ

 

[wkearney99]

Quick google show some alarm screen prices approx $150 per.   I wouldn't do every screen...at least now.   Maybe lower floor master bedroom and perhaps a few windows facing prevailing winds.   The other option I've seen is partial open window magnets so windows can be left open a few inches (too small for a person to climb in).   I'll have to explore options.
 
Wiring windows doesn't look like it's that hard.  However reading threads here there seems to be challenges encountered.     I will probably seek out some wiring quotes for alarm contacts.   My experience with alarm companies is they make lots of money on the monitoring.  That's where they want you locked in.   We had an ADT wireless system put in a house.   ADT are criminals.   $750 for a lame few motion detectors and 3 door sensors.  Plus lock into $50/month monitoring contract.   And they billed us twice for the install.   System wasn't anything special.   Simple panel.
 
I know this the wrong forum but I'll ask anyway.   We have pets that wander the house at night.   Does this exclude motion detectors?   I suppose we could put them in garages and places pets (and people) don't walk at night.  In my opinion, the ADT folks put them in because it's much easier to put one in a room than to alarm all the windows in the room.

 
Not just easier, cheaper too.
 
The trick with pre-wiring is knowing where you're going to have the wires emerge to a contact.  Otherwise it's typical to leave the wiring behind a known location, in a wall cavity.  To be fished out later.  If there's room for that, of course.
 
Bear in mind some window warranties may be affected by how they're drilled through for stuff like this.  You'd likely want to check with what the window manufacturer recommends and what their warranty will specifically NOT support.  The main idea is the windows need to be designed and installed so that they keep the elements out of your house.  As in, not let water get down inside the walls and cause them to rot.  

 

[pete_c]

Wiring windows doesn't look like it's that hard.
 
It isn't that hard and there are proper ways to do it.
 
There are a lot of DIYer's here that have wired their windows and there are many ways to do this today.
 
I terminated all of the windows sensors in the home mentioned above that was wired by the alarm company in the early 2000's.  Every window, door, sliding glass door wire is home runned to the OPII panel.
 
I did go really slow with the endeavor doing a bit at a time over a span of weeks?
 
All of the wires were labeled but I did check each one from end to end just in case.
 
You do not see the alarm contacts on any of the windows, doors or sliding glass doors I did unless you really look at them.  Well and foam was used for insulation around all of these windows.
 
Here the only pet is a Parrot and she doesn't trigger any sensors.  She does now fall off her perch while sleeping and that does make a racket some times in the middle of the night.
 
Relating to motion triggers you can purchase pet friendly PIR's as written by many folks here on the forum that have dogs and cats. 
 
Well too look at what it is you are configuring for your night triggers.  The more wires / sensors you have the more you can get granular with what sensors and with what it is you want to do. 
 
There is a lot you can do with the OmniPro 2 panel (and the Elk M1 panel).

 

[Bzncrewjr]

Pete,
So the alarm company just pulled wire and you terminated them at the windows?   It's the drilling the last few inches that scares me.  Pulling wires is a PITA but seems like the straightforward part.   Getting magnetic contacts installed is what I'm nervous about.   There are lots of posts on this forum from folks who have successfully done it.
 
I'll check the window/door company warranty.   From what I can see, most of their warranty is the glass.  Argon filled and airtight seals, not sure about frames.  
 
Pete, if you had to do it yourself, would you pull home runs for every opening window or group windows together that are in the same opening.   As you said, ideally individual home runs gives more granular control and information, however it's gotta be a lot of wires.
 
Motion sensors don't appeal to me.  They only provide information of something warm (are they infrared?) moving.   I would much prefer to see what windows are open at any time.   And who knows what the cats do all night when we are sleeping.
 
Am I wrong to believe I can mount magnets on windows to keep contacts closed with the window partially open?  Say 3" open the second magnet would meet the contacts on the side frame so the alarm could be armed with windows partially open.
 
--Russ

 

[pete_c]

So the alarm company just pulled wire and you terminated them at the windows?
 
Yes.
 
 
Pete, if you had to do it yourself, would you pull home runs for every opening window or group windows together that are in the same opening. 
 
Personally yes. But that is me.  I personally like the granularity.  It wasn't really related to needing it for security rather it was more about my hobby and tinkering with this stuff and learning about it.  Hands on is the best way to learn.
 
I did that for a friend building a new home during construction.  He (and his son) helped me.  He built his new home 300 feet from his old home on a farm such that he hired a GC and subcontracted much of the final pieces on his own. 
 
I did the same here in the midwest post construction; baby steps; it took much longer. (there was never any rush).
 
As you said, ideally individual home runs gives more granular control and information, however it's gotta be a lot of wires.
 
It is.   Wire is cheap.  Wiring your home prefinish is also very cheap as it only involves your time. 
 
IE: You can run wires anyplace and just leave unterminated until a later time.  Read here on the forum relating to windows stuff.
 
Baby steps. 
 
Take pictures as Bill has mentioned above of where and what you run wires to. 

 

[wkearney99]

The most important thing with windows is don't drill holes in a way that's going to degrade their ability to keep the water out.  All too often some half-assed installer (or whomever) does something dumb like drills up through the bottom at a point where water collects and that drips into the wall.  Eventually rotting everything.  A well designed window has a plan for managing water.  They're designed to collect it and get it away.  Put holes in the wrong place and you risk disrupting that design. 
 
That's why I suggested finding out from the window manufacturer directly.  They're likely to already know what NOT to do to their windows.  
 
I spent a pretty penny on quality windows, no way what I wanted to compromise anything related to their warranty.  That and framing complications, along with a time crunch during construction, left me with little choice that to skip doing wiring for window sensors or hard-wired shades.

 

[pete_c]

Anderson (if those are the windows you are using) offers a wireless integrated solution called VeriLock. 
 
Pella has Insynctive™.
 
Relating to Anderson I am guessing that you could connect a Resolution RE124HG RF device to your OmniPro 2.
 
 
Historically I have had the two types of windows.   Note that I haven't paid attention to windows brands lately and do not work for Pella or Anderson.  Just stating here that I have had good luck over the years with Pella/Anderson branded windows.
 
Currently here there was an abundance of what appears to be bulk purchasing of big box store junk windows for GC's in the early 2000's.  
 
My windows are personally doing OK but many neighbors here today have broken window seals and have not yet replaced them and just live with the foggy windows look.  The issues could also be related to improper installation.
 
Last home in the midwest had Anderson windows.  After the house was about 15 years old did have an issue with a few of the windows.  Anderson did fix them.

 

[Bzncrewjr]

The most important thing with windows is don't drill holes in a way that's going to degrade their ability to keep the water out.  All too often some half-assed installer (or whomever) does something dumb like drills up through the bottom at a point where water collects and that drips into the wall.  Eventually rotting everything.  A well designed window has a plan for managing water.  They're designed to collect it and get it away.  Put holes in the wrong place and you risk disrupting that design.

 
This is excellent advice.  I will find out from the manufacture the best way to handle this.   I'd prefer embedding switches in the jam to be totally invisible, however surface mount switches might be smarter for the reasons mentioned.
My thought was to mount the switch in the jam with 2 small rare earth magnets on the window itself.  One for the closed position and one 3" above it to allow the window to be cracked and armed. 
 
Our CG doesn't like Pella.   Something about overpriced and some other thing I don't remember that he didn't like.   He's used Lincoln windows for a while.  20 year warranty and seem well made.  
We had Anderson windows in previous house.   They were okay, but not special.   It was also many years ago and I'm sure there are improved designs. 
In our current house, we've replaced 1/2 of all the windows after 5 years of age because of leaks (fogging).  So I'm hoping 20 year warranty will prove better seals.
 
Going back to my original question, wires in the windows poses sheetrocker challenges.  I'm imagining my wires in the window jam and a roto tool buzzing alongside cutting right through.  
 
Pete, did you terminate switches on windows before or after sheetrock?   I guess surface mount switches, you could pull the wire alongside the window and hope they don't slice it.   
Never having done this, I'm trying to learn how this all works.
 
--Russ

 

[pete_c]

Pete, did you terminate switches on windows before or after sheetrock?  
 
In alarm company LV wiring I terminated it way after  (> a year) the sheetrock. 
 
Some windows alarm wires went to top of frame while others went to side of frame.  Everything was left capped and I had to look for the caps.
 
Front door is glass and wood and floor is tile.  Alarm wires there went inside of the hollow wooden door sections between glass for two doors. 
 
I guess surface mount switches, you could pull the wire alongside the window and hope they don't slice it.   
 
Post sheetrock I paid more attention to my LV runs than what the alarm company had done.  It was not noticed.
 
I personally did my LV stuff first right after the electric and the alarm company ran their LV after my stuff.  I only saw it completed.