Lighting Control - Reliability

[sbex55]

Hello.  I'm helping a friend with his home automation capabilities.  He is in a major renovation of his first floor home.  I am putting an in Elk panel for security.  My friend is NOT tech-savy.
 
He would like to control "3-4 lights" on the first floor.  This would probably amount to 8 switches including 3-ways.  I'd like to recommend a lighting control that is reliable.  I have Insteon and an ISY in my home.  I like the capability it gives me but it's always needs a bit of tweeking and adjustment every so often.  I don't really want to get called to his home to 'fix' his lights.  Is there a more reliable product for a small (3-4 lights) installation?
 
Thanks for the help!

 

[BillStuart]

I use a Loxone system for my lighting.  Haven't had any issues with it.  Its uses relays on the controller so having your walls open would allow a retrofit.  I also use door contact sensors and a motion sensor with it to turn on lights for me.  Its basic unit has 8 switches so it might be too much for the 3-4 that your friend wants but the best part is that its wired so there are no issues with the wifi and RF stuff.  I also use their dimmer with wall keypads.  The app I use is cool to shut everything off when I goto bed. Good Luck

 

[az1324]

I use a Loxone system for my lighting.  Haven't had any issues with it.  Its uses relays on the controller so having your walls open would allow a retrofit.  I also use door contact sensors and a motion sensor with it to turn on lights for me.  Its basic unit has 8 switches so it might be too much for the 3-4 that your friend wants but the best part is that its wired so there are no issues with the wifi and RF stuff.  I also use their dimmer with wall keypads.  The app I use is cool to shut everything off when I goto bed. Good Luck

 
Yeah but you use it because you work for loxone.  h34r:

 

[pkarakis]

I have Lutron Radio RA.  The system has been flawless in 7 years and it really is designed for retrofit.
 
Pete

 

[ano]

And UPB has been great. Pretty inexpensive and very reliable without anything to rewire. Also lots of great switch options and the virtual 3-ways are the way to go.

 

[picta]

Centralite Jetstream or Azela, less expensive than Lutron and quite reliable. However, nothing can beat hard wired in reliability.

 

[tmbrown97]

Been using UPB for 6 years in 2 houses - it always just works - never needs tweaking.  When I hear about others' adventures with z-wave and sometimes even insteon, I'm definitely glad I made the choice I did.  Long article in my signature with details.

 

[drvnbysound]

Been using UPB for 6 years in 2 houses - it always just works - never needs tweaking.  When I hear about others' adventures with z-wave and sometimes even insteon, I'm definitely glad I made the choice I did.  Long article in my signature with details.

 
Curious... roughly how many switches do you have in either of these houses?  ... I know the number doesn't really matter (when compared to a technology such as Z-wave which meshes) - what I'm really wondering is more along the lines of if you have switches installed on different phases of your home's main panel. I assume yes. If that's the case... do you have a phase coupler installed as well?
 
I've had my z-wave system installed for some time now. I've been very pleased with it given the amount I paid for the dimmers and switches. I can't recall any missed signals; I'm using the Leviton secondary controller via Elk. The only thing that I'm lacking is 2-way feedback (because of the dimmers/switches I purchased)... and I don't want to constantly poll the network. One of the main reasons I went with Z-wave was to have a network that allowed me to utilize their motorized deadbolts. If I had went with UPB or other for lighting, I'd still have ended up with Z-wave for the deadbolts.

 

[tmbrown97]

First house was my experiment - had more noise-polluting things but no phase coupler despite being spread across both phases.  This house is a bit bigger - 4K sq ft and nearly every switch is automated - roughly 65-70 devices I did in one fail swoop a few years ago; have about 12 that I haven't gotten to yet - feeling cheap... these were the things I didn't buy enough for like bathroom fans, an exterior light, most of the closets - the things that were lower priority when doing the first round.
 
I do run two phase couplers - one in the panel and a plug-in at the dryer. 
 
I love that with things like my holiday lights modules, they can be in the storage bin most of the year - but when I pull them out and plug them in, automatically things are back on schedule without me touching a thing - regardless of where they get moved to. 
 
I will likely add Z-Wave at some point for the deadbolts and HomeSeer has some interesting light/motion/temp sensors I wouldn't mind integrating so I may end up there - but slightly concerned with getting enough nodes for good propagation. 
 
I've been very happy with the Simply Automated devices - from cost/value perspective, versatility, and performance.  I also have a W800RF32 rigged up with BraveSirRobbin's X10 Antenna Upgrade that lets me throw handheld remotes and motion sensors anywhere super cheap just to mess around with some more automation that doesn't break the bank - and the commands are translated into UPB.

 

[wkearney99]

I've had Lutron Radio RA and now Radio RA2 switches in three different houses.  They work, they stay working and guests don't have any trouble using them.  
 
Some switches and keypads end up being a bit of a problem for guests.  So be sure to plan what gets placed where with that in mind.  
 
They're available in a ton of colors should that matter.  I've had as few as 8 switches and the latest house has 80+ (funny how quick the count adds up).  That includes dimmers, their remote companions (3 and 4-way setups) along with keypads and table dimmers.  
 
One very nice feature of them is being able to time the dimming.  This is handy for some 'All Off' functions in certain places. For example, it's nice to be able to turn off the whole basement level, including the stairway from the keypad next to the base of the steps.  I've got the stair dimmers timed to dim over 30 seconds, to give me enough time to walk up.  Same thing with an 'All Off' on the exit doors.  Their porch and other outside lights likewise dim over a longer period to give us enough time to get past the walkway.  
 
If you're only planning on automating one or two rooms they're kinda of overkill.  But when you look at doing a whole house they're great.  Just know that they require being programmed by an integrator.  They install just like any other kind of switch.  But if you want to get into complex lighting scenarios (like timed dimming and the like) then that needs to be done via software by an integrator.  There are, of course, ways to work with your integrator to get things done.
 
One big suggestion, hiring a lighting consultant is a VERY GOOD IDEA.  We hired someone from a local lighting place.  The time spent going over the plan lead to a number of very useful changes.  Like which kinds of recessed lights to use, how many of them, and where to place them for best effect.  The same thing applied for hanging, surface and table lighting.  Knowing which sort of fixtures you're going to use ahead of time helps make sure the wiring gets pulled to all the right locations.

 

[dw886]

I've deployed Radio RA2 as well, and after using z-wave in the past, I'm very, very happy with Radio RA2. 
 
Two reasons that I like it:
1.) You install it, and forget about it.  I've installed about 40 devices so far (and have a few more to go in boxes  )I haven't had to tweak anything with any of the hardware post install.  They've never missed a signal.
2.) The switches look the same as the high-end electronic Lutron dimmers that you can get at home improvement stores.  This means most people have seen switches that look like the Radio RA2 switches before, and that they also blend in very well.  When I went through the Z-Wave experiment, my wife didn't like the way that the switches looked or operated.  For some reason, she has deemed that the Lutron ones are "acceptable"...
 
If I was putting them into someone's house that wasn't someone that wanted to tinker, I'd go with Radio RA2...

 

[sbex55]

Thanks for all the replies!
 
I'm only familiar with the Insteon products, prices and installation.  Can you give me a ballpark estimate on using RA2?  Let's say I have a large room with 5 light sets and each set is controlled by 3-way switches (10 switches total).  What RA2 products would I need to make this work and approximately what would it cost assuming DIY installation?

 

[az1324]

Approx $125 per set plus a $300 main repeater.  These are ebay prices.  For the apps to work, it needs to be setup with the software which requires some hoops to be jumped through & a receipt from a dealer, which will probably bump up those prices.
 
You may want to consider Staples Connect which has some new Lutron "Pico" dimmers coming out next month.  Or Lowe's Iris with the very affordable GE dimmers.  Or Insteon w/ the Hub.