Lighting Control

[rbroders]

I don't know if EDT uses all four pairs, but they do explicitly state that it needs to be 4 pair wire (cat5 or equivalent).

Their documentation is all hidden behind their dealer password. Someone here said that you could become a dealer quite easily (~2K project). I checked out their dealer application forms though, and they are quite daunting - any dealers out here willing to sell to DIYers?

Maybe I'll go with OnQ instead. Their docs are very hard to find as well though. Do I need a branch, or a controller, or what? Hmmm. EDT seems simpler. The OnQ switches look more like standard paddles though (good for WAF). Its seems that neither company is catering to the DIYer.

--Bob

 

[3DogKnight]

I have the Centralite system, and love it. Yes the switches look more like keypads than regular light switches, but you can control a lot more lights and scenes in a smaller space with this setup.

Each switch keypad has a cat5 wire run to the lighting controller, which can enable 1 to 4 buttons. (one pair per button.)

As far as being intuitive, it is a simple on/off toggle, or press and hold for manual dim level. Pretty simple. The default dim level (as well as ramp rate and fade rate) is set up on the computer.

As mentioned earlier, it is very flexible in that you can change button configuration around in software without re-wiring.

Once I got a taste of a hardwired solution, I would never go back to PLC.

 

[Brightan]

There have been some excellant comments about the various systems and the methods they use for wiring and I thought I would add my 2 cents worth as well. As noted, hardwired falls into 2 main catagories, dimming control at the switch or central at the utility room. I have been redesigning my current system (central type) to be capable of doing either/or. I will be introducing an entire line of low cost (under $99) modules that can be used in a combination of different ways
- Mount the dimmer panels central
- or, use small solid state relays at the light switch itself
- Control modules that allow switch/LED and IR control to be mounted centrally and cat-5 cables to a dumb switch (a single module will control 4 locations)
- or, control modules that can be mounted at the switch to control some local switches as well as run cat-5 to other dumb switches that are close by.
This allows the installer complete flexibility over how and where they install the components. It also allows retrofit in that you can take an existing light switch box and install a small solid state relay to the AC and push it to the back of the box, add a metal barrier plate to the box and put the low voltage switches at the front. A cat-5 cable would be run beside the box and come through the front-side of the box. For new house construction, make sure you have your electrician use deep boxes for all switches. You can also run your wiring normally (in terms of AC) and leave the cat-5 cable beside the box and then add the electronics later yourself.
Other features I am working on is the ability to choose switches from a number of different manufactures as well as choosing dimmer panels from different sources.
You should have a good idea of what kind of system you are going to run because you need to decide to daisy chain cat-5 to each light switch (and whether to daisy chain the entire house as one or to divide them into groups with each group being home runned) or to home run from each location (and how many to each location, a large panel like at a front door might require 2 cat-5s) And, of course, your electrician needs to know whether to wire the boxes with AC or to home run all the AC to the utility room.
Steve

 

[Brightan]

one more quick comment about push button switches...yes, visitors will sometimes(initially) be afraid of pushing a button to turn the lights on but very very quickly come to appreciate how much a lighting system can do. I think this is a process of education that will quickly change over the next few years as more and more lighting goes electronic (which is inevitable) And to echo 3DogKnight's comment, once you've seen hardwired in action, there is no substitute. A customers house has 108 zones of lighting and you can dim the entire house up and down with a single switch on a remote keyfob from the end of the driveway...very cool...)
Steve

 

[rbroders]

Regarding the CentraLight, my wife and I figured out the buttons quickly enough, but unless they have a new set of buttons available, the exact same buttons are used to control scenes as are used for single loads. However, the scene buttons behave quite differently (hold for 2secs to shut off a scene - ughh). We tried to use labels (normal for loads, italics for scenes) to communicate this information to our hapless guests (parents, in-laws, etc.), but they never got it. Since they never knew what would happen when they pressed a button, they avoided the system altogether.

It seems that this isn't a necessary feature of hardwired systems, and I look forward to getting a system which doesn't have that problem.

--Bob

 

[Brightan]

It seems that this isn't a necessary feature of hardwired systems, and I look forward to getting a system which doesn't have that problem.

--Bob

I'm not sure I understand, you want a system without scenes or without the hold to turn off a scene?
I think that with any system (lighting or otherwise) that the tradeoff for features is always complexity...I guess the trick is finding the right rato.
Steve

 

[rocco]

Each switch keypad has a cat5 wire run to the lighting controller, which can enable 1 to 4 buttons. (one pair per button.)

With respect to CentraLite, a very minor correction.

Each cat5 wire allows SIX buttons. They use six wires for the buttons, with two wires as common. The buttons are simple dry-contact momentary closure.

I intend to gut some of my old SmartHome ToggleLincs to use the momentary switches in the bedrooms, for the sake of guests. Also, if you don't like the style of the CentraLite buttons, almost any other will work as well. I will probably use some of the newer Touch-Plate keypads.

 

[rbroders]

I'm not sure I understand, you want a system without scenes or without the hold to turn off a scene?

I think that with any system (lighting or otherwise) that the tradeoff for features is always complexity...I guess the trick is finding the right rato.
Steve

I want a system where the scene buttons have a clear difference in appearance from the load buttons (since there is a clear difference in behavior).

I'm not a big fan of the hold for two secs for off either. How about one push on, one push off.

You could configure a centralite system with no scenes, and it would solve the identical buttons problem, but scenes are too useful to give up.

Bob

 

[Brightan]

I want a system where the scene buttons have a clear difference in appearance from the load buttons (since there is a clear difference in behavior).

I'm not a big fan of the hold for two secs for off either. How about one push on, one push off.

I have done systems where the main switch is a decora style (full size paddle type) that turns the lights on/off and dims up and down and then a second decora size panel that holds 6 or 8 buttons that controls the scenes. This allows an outsider to know how to use the main light in the room and leave the smaller switches alone.

Because everybody has their own preference to how a system should work, I have designed my system to allow you to change the default switch settings to do anything you want. Typically a single push for on to preset or double click for full brightness (and hold for dim up/down) and the same for a scene, push once to run the scene, hold for scene fading up or down and double click for scene full brightness but you could change it to double click the scene off but now you have a situation that a single load double click is different than a scene double click leading to confusion maybe. You could also do as you are suggesting, first click to run scene, second click to turn scene off although my personal preference is to define scenes that turn lights on over various times and then different scenes (and switches) to turn lights off. My favorite scene is the one that turns all the lights off over 10 seconds but turns three main lights on to about 25% and then fades off over half an hour for late night return trips to the kitchen etc.

Steve

 

[3DogKnight]

How about one push on, one push off.

This is exactly how my Centralite LiteJet works for both scenes and loads.

Which system requires holding for 2 seconds?

 

[rbroders]

This is exactly how my Centralite LiteJet works for both scenes and loads.

Which system requires holding for 2 seconds?

Well I'm glad Centralite fixed that annoyance. My system was purchased about six years ago. The model is not even listed on their web-site anymore.