Linux MCE
- Thread starter dlewis
- Start date
twilo123
Active Member
the linuxmce forum can help you with alot of the setup/installation issues. hari has re-designed the zwave driver (which was ported over originally from another HA software) and it is supposedly much more reliable (if that's what your using with hai/elk).
The concept of LinuxMCE has been the most interesting one that I have seen since it was announced by the name of Plutohome about 2 years ago. I tried it then and in myopinion it was not mature enought - not only technologically, but also the documentation and the support.
I saw the new video demo and it looks like it has advanced a lot. It differs from Plutohome in that it uses a traditional CVS database, while Plutohome used an sqlCVS that would upload back your enhancements to the central server (provided that you authorized) and would available for other users to reapply. In theory, it would foster the fast development and redeployment of device drivers.
They also had a generic serial device driver utility that was supposed to make easy to create new device driver for serial devices (think UPB). Its sad that after two years they have only focused in Z-Wave.
I might try it again some time. If you do it before, please let us know how it works for you.
Thanks
I saw the new video demo and it looks like it has advanced a lot. It differs from Plutohome in that it uses a traditional CVS database, while Plutohome used an sqlCVS that would upload back your enhancements to the central server (provided that you authorized) and would available for other users to reapply. In theory, it would foster the fast development and redeployment of device drivers.
They also had a generic serial device driver utility that was supposed to make easy to create new device driver for serial devices (think UPB). Its sad that after two years they have only focused in Z-Wave.
I might try it again some time. If you do it before, please let us know how it works for you.
Thanks
solinvictus
New Member
Long time lingerer here. First time poster, but I had to chime in on this subject. I've been evaluating a large number of HA software products lately, both free/open source and commercial. LinuxMCE was one of the first few that I tested out, and I found some very bizarre setup requirements as detailed below...
First, the LinuxMCE DVD installer actually installs the entire Kubuntu operating system. They have a separate CD-based installer for existing Kubuntu systems, but you must have the exact Kubuntu version expected or you will run into problems. I can't tell you how much of a p.i.t.a. this requirement was for me. I had a Kubuntu 8.0 system and found that I had to wipe the entire system back to Kubunto 7.10 just to try out LinuxMCE.
The next big p.i.t.a. for me was that LinuxMCE absolutely requires two separate network connections. If you only have one network card, then LinuxMCE creates a virtual subnet within your existing network connection for its second network connection. The reason it does this is because the developers of LinuxMCE insist on your LinuxMCE machine becoming the network router for your entire home network. They do this so that they can implement the exact type of QoS settings they want in the Linux routing configuration. I already have a pretty high-end router with all kinds of nice QoS capabilities and lots of other stuff that I definitely do *not* want to have to reconfigure and replace with LinuxMCE. The LinuxMCE message boards are loaded with heated philosophical debates over this requirement, and there are plenty of LinuxMCE developers chiming in repeating the argument over and over that they basically know what's better for the end user than the end user could possibly know for himself.
Note that it is *possible* to force LinuxMCE to work with a single network, but the process is just WAAAAAAY more complicated than it should be. The fact that the default configuration is so weird just illustrates to me that the general mentality of the LinuxMCE development crowd is a little out of touch with the more non-technical crowd. For all of these reasons, I decided against a LinuxMCE install.
Kyle
First, the LinuxMCE DVD installer actually installs the entire Kubuntu operating system. They have a separate CD-based installer for existing Kubuntu systems, but you must have the exact Kubuntu version expected or you will run into problems. I can't tell you how much of a p.i.t.a. this requirement was for me. I had a Kubuntu 8.0 system and found that I had to wipe the entire system back to Kubunto 7.10 just to try out LinuxMCE.
The next big p.i.t.a. for me was that LinuxMCE absolutely requires two separate network connections. If you only have one network card, then LinuxMCE creates a virtual subnet within your existing network connection for its second network connection. The reason it does this is because the developers of LinuxMCE insist on your LinuxMCE machine becoming the network router for your entire home network. They do this so that they can implement the exact type of QoS settings they want in the Linux routing configuration. I already have a pretty high-end router with all kinds of nice QoS capabilities and lots of other stuff that I definitely do *not* want to have to reconfigure and replace with LinuxMCE. The LinuxMCE message boards are loaded with heated philosophical debates over this requirement, and there are plenty of LinuxMCE developers chiming in repeating the argument over and over that they basically know what's better for the end user than the end user could possibly know for himself.
Note that it is *possible* to force LinuxMCE to work with a single network, but the process is just WAAAAAAY more complicated than it should be. The fact that the default configuration is so weird just illustrates to me that the general mentality of the LinuxMCE development crowd is a little out of touch with the more non-technical crowd. For all of these reasons, I decided against a LinuxMCE install.
Kyle
Welcome to CT, Kyle!
I couldn't agree more with your observations. It's a disaster waiting to happen, a home automation/media appliance should not be sharing any physical parts with your internet router. I am sure LinuxMCE has happy 'customers', but I do not believe that people like 'us' are the target audience.
I couldn't agree more with your observations. It's a disaster waiting to happen, a home automation/media appliance should not be sharing any physical parts with your internet router. I am sure LinuxMCE has happy 'customers', but I do not believe that people like 'us' are the target audience.
I have been using LinuxMCE for a year now. I agree that fighting the setup is a prescription for frustration. BUT if you follow the directions and use it the way its designed it works very well. If you try to force it to coexist with non-compatible stuff you are in for a world of frustration.
I'm using it with a single NIC and that has been troublefree. You can modify the network settings to accommodate what ever you want. I'm running an RARP service in it along with DHCP and managing a lot of IP devices. Its not a throughput bottleneck- I'm getting a consistant 20 Mbps on my cable modem. It also reduces the challenges of VOIP NAT issues when they are in the same boxes. The need for it to be the router is to enable the plug and play configuration engine and allow it to support automatically flashing firmware on Cisco phones and configuring IP cameras among other things.
The LinuxMCE forum has lots of users that help others work through many challenges.
I don't know of other software packages that are as fully integrated- even Crestron and AMX are little more than glorified remote controls for external products.
I'm also not as convinced that having the router in the same box as the home automation features is bad. Poorly designed security exists in both worlds as does well engineered security. I would prefer it not to be a PC with its power overhead and complexity. That is why I'm looking at this product: Mi Casa Verde No media but enough home automation to do a lot of useful stuff.
I'm using it with a single NIC and that has been troublefree. You can modify the network settings to accommodate what ever you want. I'm running an RARP service in it along with DHCP and managing a lot of IP devices. Its not a throughput bottleneck- I'm getting a consistant 20 Mbps on my cable modem. It also reduces the challenges of VOIP NAT issues when they are in the same boxes. The need for it to be the router is to enable the plug and play configuration engine and allow it to support automatically flashing firmware on Cisco phones and configuring IP cameras among other things.
The LinuxMCE forum has lots of users that help others work through many challenges.
I don't know of other software packages that are as fully integrated- even Crestron and AMX are little more than glorified remote controls for external products.
I'm also not as convinced that having the router in the same box as the home automation features is bad. Poorly designed security exists in both worlds as does well engineered security. I would prefer it not to be a PC with its power overhead and complexity. That is why I'm looking at this product: Mi Casa Verde No media but enough home automation to do a lot of useful stuff.
There really are many reasons why a router should not be part of your home automation system, especially since many people also interface their home security through the home automation interface. The idea of a DDoS, or a new type of portscan, or even strange bittorrent traffic being able to affect your entire home is just scary. But like Kyle mentioned, it's a topic which can turn into a large debate, so I will leave it at that.
What I got from the documentation long time ago and from the video recently (I mean, how I understand it) is that they just need LinuxMCE to be the DHCP server. In this way it would be able to implement a zeroconf type of protocol to register new devices automatically.
If this is true, then I can live with that. I have not problem turning off the DHCP server of my router. However, just like Dan an many others, I would not let this complex HA server be the gateway to protect me from the outsiders that I want out, or to let me into my network when I want to go in.
About forcing you to a specific version and configuration of Linux...it's could be a pain, but I don't see other way to integrate so many different packages together to work as a single system. If you think about it, LinuxMCE is kind of the Frankestein of Home Automation. Giving life to that monster requires very specific conditions. Obviously, you will want a dedicated system, using compatible parts only. Its not like you are going to test it playing a LiveCD from your office laptop. I dont have the hardware to dedicate and not even the money to assemble the complete system, so no LinuxMCE for me, for now.
If this is true, then I can live with that. I have not problem turning off the DHCP server of my router. However, just like Dan an many others, I would not let this complex HA server be the gateway to protect me from the outsiders that I want out, or to let me into my network when I want to go in.
About forcing you to a specific version and configuration of Linux...it's could be a pain, but I don't see other way to integrate so many different packages together to work as a single system. If you think about it, LinuxMCE is kind of the Frankestein of Home Automation. Giving life to that monster requires very specific conditions. Obviously, you will want a dedicated system, using compatible parts only. Its not like you are going to test it playing a LiveCD from your office laptop. I dont have the hardware to dedicate and not even the money to assemble the complete system, so no LinuxMCE for me, for now.
I have an external gateway/router/firewall connected to the cable modem so the firewall function is handled externally. And that was easy to set up (just disable the DHCP server in the gateway box). It also allows some IP addresses to be fixed and have access to the outside world whether the system is up or down so it give a lot of flexibility. This would address the network security issue. Setting up the ports for VOIP is tricky, however.
While its true that may new types of attacks can hack through the common box the threat from running Internet Exploder on a PC inside the network is probably even higher.
If LMCE is a little too much look at the Vera box at Mi Casa Verde above. ZWave, security cameras, remote access may be enough and its certainly cheaper than building a PC. Use something like a Popcorn Hour for media and you have a pretty sophisticated solution with a small power footprint (and relative price tag).
While its true that may new types of attacks can hack through the common box the threat from running Internet Exploder on a PC inside the network is probably even higher.
If LMCE is a little too much look at the Vera box at Mi Casa Verde above. ZWave, security cameras, remote access may be enough and its certainly cheaper than building a PC. Use something like a Popcorn Hour for media and you have a pretty sophisticated solution with a small power footprint (and relative price tag).
I have to give credit to those Casa Verde guys! I have hacked an ASUS Router before, but didn't get so far as they did with their Vera device. They didn't even took the effort to hide the 1-4 port lights. Z-Wave on an Asus router. That's a good one.
I have seen it work. The router functionality is still in it as well. I'm not sure I understand your remarks.