Low Voltage Cable Types For Outdoor

[ccmichaelson]

The excavators are digging a trench to run water/electrical between my house and detached garage (both new construction).  I want to run a couple CAT6 (for security camera and ???) as well as some 22/4 gauge security wire (motion/door contacts) in the same trench.
 
I purchased some unshielded CAT 6 direct burial wire from amazon:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GYGQ31E/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
Do i need a special type of awg 22/4 gauge wire (e.g. burial version)?  
Can I put the CAT6 & 22/4 gauge wire in the same conduit - if so what conduit do I need to use - is regular PVC okay?
 

 

[tmbrown97]

OMG!  I just typed a ton of stuff and my stupid accidental gesture lost it all.
 
So - here's my summary!  1st - trash or return that amazon cable.  It's garbage.  Unshielded copper-clad aluminum - no thanks... not for any job ever.  I wouldn't even run that indoors only.  If you end up needing burial grade Cat5 then go with something better that's shielded, reputable, and not copper-clad aluminum.  I use a lot of Ubiquiti ToughCable - it's great because it's not gel filled and can handle burial, UV exposure, etc... that said, as long as you're not doing much vertical run then gel filled can be good too - if not better.  However, with CatX (5/6) cabling in an exterior environment, you also need shielding.  I use polyphaser a lot especially when doing high-dollar jobs - it has served me well.  And even though you'll be in conduit, that's really merely a convenience factor (albeit a huge one!)... you still have to run outdoor burial rated cable because inevitably conduit is/becomes a wet location and must be treated as such.  
 
Also I'd run the biggest conduit you can - the traditional gray PVC you see in the box stores at the electrical isle with the correct ends/housing to enter the structures.  I'd also have the electrician run a solid ground right where the conduit enters the building so you have a way to ground/drain anything that passes between structures.
 
Continuing on - you have a couple things going on here.  Running CatX cable between structures isn't as easy as it sounds.  Done right you should be compensating for surge protection.  I don't know your climate/region but that may be more or less of a concern. Luckily where I'm at it's hardly a factor but for most of the US it's huge, and I still account for it in order to provide lasting quality installs.  Instead of running multiple CatX cables to home run your cameras and other items, you'd be better off running 1 and using a switch in the garage.  You can protect that cable with surge protection - or better yet, you can use pre-terminated fiber cables to length, and use something like a Netgear GS110TP switch with the fiber transceivers to make yourself 100% immune to static/surge and make life unbelievably simple...  I'm a big fan of that switch because it supports VLANs, it's POE, etc - I've probably bought 30+ in the last few years.
 
For the security, there's opportunity for betterment there as well.  Instead of trying to run multiple conductors which are surge and power susceptible, what I'd do is similar to what I did in my own home...  The M1G uses an addressable system in which many key devices may be located remotely.  In my install, instead of running multiple sensors back to the primary panel, I chose to install a sub-panel in the garage.  This is served by a single Cat5 and can be powered by a P212s which has the added benefit of powering/charging a battery in the remote structure.  Once you have the databus in the garage, then you can control keypads, inputs, outputs, etc.

 

[Neurorad]

Use the same type of conduit for the LV and line voltage, the gray rigid Schedule 40 mentioned above is the most affordable.

Yes, use direct burial or wet rated cables in the conduit.

Great tip on the remote alarm board, W2P, connected by a single cat cable. I think most alarms will accomodate a remote board like this.

Worry about the cables later, focus on getting the conduits right.

 

[wkearney99]

Direct burial doesn't need to be in a conduit.  It won't hurt to put it inside of one, but it's not necessary.  It is a good idea, however, to use cable suitable for burial inside the conduit as it guards against the inevitable leaks or intrusions that conduits almost ALWAYS suffer when buried.
 
CCA is not ideal and using better cable is a good idea, especially when it's going into a 'hard to replace' situation.  That said, I inadvertently used CCA for a bunch of my runs here and it's not had any trouble (yet, knock wood).  But I would definitely wanted to have avoided it.  It's just a cost-savings scheme by the manufacturers.  I don't know that I'd bother returning it as the shipping back is likely more than the cable's worth.
 
As for conduit, don't ever plan on 'adding anything' unless it's empty from the start.  Pulling more cables later runs the risk of snagging or otherwise damaging what's already in the conduit.  So don't bother over-sizing anything if there's cabling going in there now.  Better to put down two rather than one that's larger.
 
Electrical isolation is worth considering.  Fiber optic at 100mbps speeds is not all that expensive for the fiber-to-copper converters.  Gigabit raises the price of the adapters but can readily use the same glass fibers.  If you start with 100 you could always upgrade to 1000 later once the adapter prices drop.  The upside to using fiber is any electrical problems (lightning, mainly) won't carry from one structure to the other.

 

[tmbrown97]

Just a little tip to go with Bill's comment above... if you go fiber and don't use switches that have SFP's to handle it and end up using Media Converters instead, you have to pay close attention.  Trying to future-proof and use a gigabit media converter today into a 10/100 switch won't work.  If the media converters are gigabit, then they *must* be plugged into a gigabit switch.  However, a 100mb media converter can be plugged into a gigabit switch just fine - but of course locked to 100mb.
 
And as I said above, conduit is a convenience... but anything in it should be rated the same as if the conduit wasn't there - so outdoor, wet location and direct burial rated.

 

[drvnbysound]

Funny (not really) you mention that W2P - I got burned doing exactly that on a job about 6 years ago. I had to temporarily put in a 10/100/1000 switch, until the new media converter came in (which supported 10/100/1000). In this case all of the equipment was extreme temp. rated, so none of it was cheap.

 

[Neurorad]

Since, at this point, you don't know how your alarm will be wired, I would use conduit.

If you have trouble pulling cables through a conduit that already has cables, remove the existing cables and pull all together.

 

[tmbrown97]

OP has commented in different threads that he's going Elk M1G so we know how the databus is run.
 
@drvnbysound - These days I'm not even 40 yet I feel so old given all the life and career lessons I've been dealt.  Any many of them were as a consultant and costing me money.  I try so hard to help but it usually bites me in the ass.
 
Same topic... over the years many people have asked me where I went to school or how I learned what I know today... my answer has always been "I didn't go to school for this - but over the years I've %____% up enough things and had to fix them before anyone noticed so I learned along the way!

 

[ccmichaelson]

Just to confirm, can I run CAT 6 and AWG 22/4 (alarm wire) in the same conduit?  I'm going to return the non shielded direct bury CAT 6 (as was suggested) and pickup a shielded brand.

 

[RAL]

Yes, you can mix low voltage cables of different types in the same conduit.  What you can't do is run low voltage cables and high voltage (e.g. 120/220V) cables in the same conduit.

 

[Del91574]

Yes, you can mix low voltage cables of different types in the same conduit.  What you can't do is run low voltage cables and high voltage (e.g. 120/220V) cables in the same conduit.

Actually not true, it can be done and there are ways to do it, but it should be an absolute last resort...such as being unable to cross a concrete driveway or similar. Done many times on highways and taxiways where disruption to install more conduit is not always possible.
 
They use that specific example as a gotcha on almost every code exam or license test.
 
That said, in the case of a panel like the M1, it's better and typically easier to isolate and surge a bus device in the remote building (assuming the entire install is under the 4k' length for the entire bus (pay attention if you use a DBH and cat X for the KP's!) than pulling the cabling back to the panel and putting protection on both ends.

 

[RAL]

Actually not true, it can be done and there are ways to do it, but it should be an absolute last resort...such as being unable to cross a concrete driveway or similar. Done many times on highways and taxiways where disruption to install more conduit is not always possible.

 
DEL - you're right.  I had learned that fact somewhere in the past, but had forgotten that there is a way to do it.  If I recall, it requires using LV cables that have insulation ratings of 600V or higher - not the usual 300V rated cable that is typically found.  For me, the safe/easy solution became just keep them separate and then you don't have to worry.

 

[Del91574]

I included for more informational purposes, there are caveats, but the basics, boiled down, is the insulation must be the same rating as the HV cable and then the two separated as soon as practicable. Specific voltages aren't really cited.
 
Agreed, the usual of keeping voltages and types separated is usually easier and cheaper, but in the case of an existing application, it may be the only option to get cabling to a building.