Motion sensor controlled lights

[CrimsonPirate]

Hi everybody,

I'm new here and to home automation. I'm just starting to build up a HA system using Vera Lite and Tasker on Android. I wonder if you could help me with a question.

I want to control my lights with motion sensors, so if somebody enters a room the lights turn on, if there's nobody in the room the lights turn off. The problem I'm having is that if somebody is in the room but hasn't moved for some time (e.g. is reading) the lights will turn off. The obvious solution is to set the timer duration longer but I'd really like the lights to turn off straight away if there's nobody in the room. Any ideas?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Typically, an 'occupancy' motion sensor is used in lieu of a standard security motion sensor for these applications as it is more sensitive to motion.

 

[JimS]

As I understand it you want the light to stay on with no motion (someone present but not moving or moving very little) but want lights to go off quickly when they leave the room. 
 
This seems like a very difficult task.  Perhaps some sort of proximity detection, maybe with bluetooth or something similar - but the people would each have to carry a unit. 
 
Counting people going in and out is difficult and the system can loose count.
 
Simplest and most reliable would be to install a small lever or button near the exit that the person could use to signal that they are leaving the room. 

 

[ano]

Simplest and most reliable would be to install a small lever or button near the exit that the person could use to signal that they are leaving the room. 

Don't they already have that in most rooms. Its called the "light switch."
 
The fact of the matter is that automation is not the answer to every problem, and this is currently one of them.

 

[CrimsonPirate]

Typically, an 'occupancy' motion sensor is used in lieu of a standard security motion sensor for these applications as it is more sensitive to motion.

Yes, I meant occupancy sensors. Unfortunately they only mark when the room is occupied, not when it's vacant. :-/

 

[CrimsonPirate]

Lol! I was already aware of the "light switch" option. :-D

You guys are right. All other options seem to be difficult to execute and failure prone. I'll probably just settle for extending the timer duration and have the system ask after a certain amount of time if there's still someone in the room before turning the lights off.

Thx for your help, guys. ;-)

 

[ano]

We don't mean to be so cynical, but this subject comes up a lot, is probably the first automation task that everyone wants to do, and it IS a very difficult problem to solve.  There are some very expensive sensors that CAN detect people (not motion) but "defining" a room is difficult. You could use RFID or possiby pick up a Bluetooth phone or Zigbee tag, but this requires receivers, and you have to be carrying the transmitter for it to work. 
 
I've even found that using motion to turn on (but not off) lights problematic as there is a slight delay, and false trips seem to be more annoying than just turning on the light manually in the first place.  So, this is a work-in-progress.

 

[CrimsonPirate]

We don't mean to be so cynical ...

I didn't take it in a bad way. On the contrary. I appreciate you guys helping me out and like the funny and casual way it is done. ;-)

Yes, I guess I still have loads to learn. Like you I think this would be one of the first things everybody would try to do with his HA system and it seems to be one of the most difficult ones. I'll mess around with timer duration a bit and see if I can come up with a satisfying solution.

Thx again for you help.

 

[ricklearned]

FWIW, my system uses a vacancy sensor in the bathroom which works well. Bathrooms are the low hanging fruit because there is usually some motion and the visits are generally brief. So far when the SO is in there for a long time there is generally activity. I also put the vacancy sensor above the mirror because that is where the activity is focused. LOL

 

[LarrylLix]

Usually the position of the MS is the most important in eliminating some lag time in shutting off. Try to keep the MS pointed at 90 degrees to the most common motion happening.
 
More fiber in their diets may help the lack of motion detected.

 

[42etus]

Are the doors to the room(s) typically open when someone is in the room and closed when the room is vacant? That would be a simple (and perhaps obvious) scenario to automate. We have our pantry door that way as the door is only open when someone is in the pantry.

 

[CrimsonPirate]

Are the doors to the room(s) typically open when someone is in the room and closed when the room is vacant? That would be a simple (and perhaps obvious) scenario to automate. We have our pantry door that way as the door is only open when someone is in the pantry.

No, 42etus. Most of our doors are always open. Thx for your help anyway. ;-)

 

[tmbrown97]

We have no problem getting switches turned on around here - it's turning them off that's a struggle (with the kids - not my wife - she's makes all the rooms too dark all the time!)... so instead of worrying about how to get them on, we're focused more on seeing if the room has been idle too long during daylight hours.
 
There are some exceptions - the garage comes on if any doors open (including the big ones) and stay on as long as motion continues.  Closet/Pantry - on if the door is open, off if closed or if the door is left open for 15 minutes.
 
We also light a path into the house if you enter and the house is armed and it's dark in the house (based sunset times).
 
I don't know about normal living space - like a livingroom... any place where people get extremely sedentary it'll have trouble picking them up.  This is probably more common in CA where all commercial spaces have to have occupancy sensors to turn lights off - but out here everyone knows the little dance you have to do when most of the office clears out and the lights turn off - someone has to jump up and down to flag the thing until they come back on.  Commercial bathrooms will go dark on you too.
 
I would also think you'd need something like the Multi-Sensor that can also measure luminance to know what the current light level in the room is and adjust accordingly.  I haven't tried it yet but would like to soon.

 

[Desert_AIP]

I only use motion/occupancy in auxiliary spaces.
The laundry room, closets, garage, outbuildings.

 

[CrimsonPirate]

... someone has to jump up and down to flag the thing until they come back on ...

Lol, that is exactly what I'm trying to prevent.

Multi sensors are also my way to go. Especially since some of them measure ttemperature too, which comes in handy.