Need Help Chosing Software and Hardware

dsabot

Member
I am just getting my gameplan together for automating my home. I have a 5500 square foot house,, ranch style, on what we call a band aid lot (long and narrow), so the distance from the front to the back can be quite extensive. The house was built in the early 80s and I am not sure if I have netural wires to all my switches. I have an Elk M1 system installed for security and was looking for some advice on home automation. With so many wonderful pieces of software, Homeseer, HAL, etc and hardware, Insteon, ZWave, UPB, etc I am at a loss. I certainly want something reliable and powerful. I am not afraid to get my hands dirty with programming, especially when I know how wonderful all the people at cocoon are at helping people out, but I just want the darn thing to work. Years ago I had an x10 system and the lights would turn on and off all hours of the night, and let me tell you how scary is when you are asleep :) Thanks in advance.
 
Welcome David,
The first thing we need to know is your budget. Being a long time HomeSeer user I would recommend the new HomeTroller (hardware)- http://www.hometroller.com/products/hardware/hometroller.htm and either Z-Wave (takes the powerline out of the equation and support is built into HomeSeer) or UPB with it's associated plugin. There are 2 plugins that interface HomeSeer with the ELK system and it's a platform that can be added to for years to come. Give us more budget info and future plans and we can help.
 
Welcome David,
The first thing we need to know is your budget. Being a long time HomeSeer user I would recommend the new HomeTroller (hardware)- http://www.hometroller.com/products/hardware/hometroller.htm and either Z-Wave (takes the powerline out of the equation and support is built into HomeSeer) or UPB with it's associated plugin. There are 2 plugins that interface HomeSeer with the ELK system and it's a platform that can be added to for years to come. Give us more budget info and future plans and we can help.


I don't have a particular budget in mind, but let's just say that I am not afraid to spend the money needed to make the system work. I purchased the Elk because I liked the fact that lots of software play nicely with it. I want to ensure that whatever hardware I use is smart enough to know if a command has been successfully executed.
 
I just had a party last weekend, in which many people come to my house and many want to "see the automated house." I, of course, have a "tour" I give, but its actually pretty hard to give tours when so many other people want burgers, help playing pool, etc.

Anyway, from comments that I've received, it really got me thinking just exactly what was "home automation" and maybe how there is no one answer to that. Certainly, if I paid $100,000 or more to a "Home Automation" company to "automate" my home, the system that I would have would be MUCH different than the system I have by doing it myself. The real reason for this is that the pros tend to install "flashy" systems that can be running without a whole lot of custom (ie expensive) work, whereby my system has some pricey hardware, but the majority of it is customization and hours after hours (maybe in the 100's if not 1000's) of work if I paid someone else to do would easily cost several $100K, just for the software.

So, I think, before anyone can REALLY give you a suggestion, they need to know more what you are looking for, and "willing to spend" really isn't all that specific either. Maybe you should start by listing some required characteristics, and some optional ones. Do you want touchscreens, voice announcements, full lighting control, or full lighting "automation," control of a media room, music in all rooms, etc.

Also, I think those not deeply involved with "home automation" really don't have an appreciation for it in terms of cost, and perhaps that is another reason to be clear about your expectations. I know myself, I could easily have paid more for home automation than I paid for the house it resides in. You can have a system for a few hundred, but if you are paying someone else to do it, it can easily work up to several hundred thousands as well. Again, labor and programming usually costs more than the hardware or software.
 
Welcome David,
The first thing we need to know is your budget. Being a long time HomeSeer user I would recommend the new HomeTroller (hardware)- http://www.hometroller.com/products/hardware/hometroller.htm and either Z-Wave (takes the powerline out of the equation and support is built into HomeSeer) or UPB with it's associated plugin. There are 2 plugins that interface HomeSeer with the ELK system and it's a platform that can be added to for years to come. Give us more budget info and future plans and we can help.


I don't have a particular budget in mind, but let's just say that I am not afraid to spend the money needed to make the system work. I purchased the Elk because I liked the fact that lots of software play nicely with it. I want to ensure that whatever hardware I use is smart enough to know if a command has been successfully executed.
Most of the new Z-Wave equipment is "smart" enough to know that the switch was pushed and all of the UPB hardware reports it's status. Keep the questions coming.
 
You raise some good questions and hopefully I am able to answer them as clearly as possible. I want a system that will turn lights on and off at certain times (dusk/dawn,coming home, leaving home, etc). Something that will allow me to turn of the most frequently used lights in the house from my bed, rather than walking all over the darn house doing it manually. While FULL lighting control is nice, there really are just a few rooms I use all the time that I want to control. I would like speakers to annonce things like alarm/zone status, inside and outside temperature, etc. I would like to be able to speak to the system if possible to turn off HVAC equipment, as well as integrate iwth my Jandy system for my pool (turn on lights, spa heater on, etc.) I would like to integrate a digital audio system so I can access XM, iTunes and ripped music via some touchscreens.

But basically everytime I read what you guys are doing, I pretty much want to do the same thing. You guys are like drug pushers: come on, just turn on a light with your voice, that was good wasn't it? Go ahead, push that button, it will turn on the sprinklers, take the dog out potty, balance your check book and turn the game on the big screen tv. Bam, I am hooked.
 
Man, do i know where your at. I had purchased the Elk before i even closed on my house!!!!

I hate MS Windows based solutions. I know IVB and other downplay the risks, but i think Elk's reliability is in it's hardware based simplicity not some complex, GPF'ing, bluescreening junk. I must admit, i was so in love with the idea, i fell for the april fools prank on this forum for a mini-din unit that had everything i wanted !!!!


In terms of software, my needs may or may not be similar to yours, but here's what i know i want:

priority #1 - a single (large/portable) touchscreen interface (read Viewsonic Airpanel or something) with:
1) *control of the Elk
2) whole house audio control
3) home theater control
4) * zwave lighting/hvac - less of a priority esp as i await elk's fix for the serial expander for vizia-rf control
5) a bunch of wishful stuff like pool, etc down the road
6) a way to check video cams

On the other hand, i am not interested in:
1) voice recognition (if i can't get my fat a&^ off a couch, well...) - sorry i know it has more applications!
2) multi-room video (if i spend all my life on a couch, welll - actually more importantly, my kids don't need to live on the couch)
3) walking my dog, mowing my yard or other things that (again, if i can't get off the couch, well...)

Not trying to slam people who do it... It sure sounds fun, but it's where you place your value. My wife and I love music as well as a clean, non-cluttered house - which is why those are important to me. And whatever i have it needs to be simple enough for her to use without a lot of frustrations (she doesn't like the Elk keypads much).

* My current struggles are do i really need software control of things like HVAC/lighting when elk does it for me? I think i could just browse to the elk's webserver to control when needed. Similar with lighting... Maybe not as fancy - but i'm just not sure...


Anyway, with lack of complete open source/linux based solutions, I think i'm forced into Charmed Quark / Mainlobby and this forum has gotten a lot of good advice from the reps from both products. Some people here seem to like to jump on David when he's trying to be helpful which i think is unfair.... He's very helpful (of course he wants you to buy his product, who wouldn't).

If your needs mirror mine, you might see:
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=7093&hl=
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=7126&hl=


Might also attend IVB's session on CQC... would give you some idea of what it is and does...

-brad
 
Personally, I would take baby steps while you figure out everything you want to do. You already have the M1 which is great start. With it alone you can do alot of what you mentioned. I am a big fan of using the M1 to its fullest potential and then supplementing it with the appropriate software for the other stuff. Sounds like you want to start with lighting, so you need to pick a technology, essentially Insteon, UPB or Zwave these days. If you do not have neutrals, that kind of eliminates alot of choices. If you have neutrals I am a big fan of UPB.

So there is an idea... break down what you want into manageable 'chunks', choose the technology or options for that chunk, implement it and move to the next one. Just keep an eye on the big picture as there may be some interoperability concerns. While you are concentrating on the hardware and pieces like lighting you can be evaluating various software packages to complement the M1 because it will take you some time to try them out and be comfortable with a decision. If you want touch screens and complete control over design, you are looking basically at CQC and Mainlobby. For more full featured systems you are looking at Homeseer, HAL, Powerhome, etc. VR adds in a whole different twist.

But most important, take your time and have fun with it.
 
You raise some good questions and hopefully I am able to answer them as clearly as possible. I want a system that will turn lights on and off at certain times (dusk/dawn,coming home, leaving home, etc). Something that will allow me to turn of the most frequently used lights in the house from my bed, rather than walking all over the darn house doing it manually. While FULL lighting control is nice, there really are just a few rooms I use all the time that I want to control. I would like speakers to annonce things like alarm/zone status, inside and outside temperature, etc. I would like to be able to speak to the system if possible to turn off HVAC equipment, as well as integrate iwth my Jandy system for my pool (turn on lights, spa heater on, etc.) I would like to integrate a digital audio system so I can access XM, iTunes and ripped music via some touchscreens.

O.K. What you are talking about falls between a few systems out there, but I fully understand from your description. You don't seem to be talking about the "pro" home automation systems as much as the DIY systems. Assuming that you are willing to dig in, do some programming, etc. to me, it sounds like you either need HomeSeer or CQC. I use Homeseer with a love/hate relationship, but in terms of reliability it has gotten better through the years. Its Windows based and supports almost every hardware device you can imagine, but I wouldn't call it "commercial quality" and in fact I wouldn't call it "consumer quality" but I'd call it "hobbyist quality." As an example, I've waited almost a year for a command to work that just sends a simple DTMF tone to a phone from my modem. Its documented to work, but it doesn't. I was told it was actually fixed a month ago, but since there aren't enough other bug fixes, I'm told that I need to wait for this fix when others are released. If it wasn't a document command I'd say O.K., but frustrating otherwise.

On the other end is CQC. Very reliable, from what I hear, but it doesn't yet support all the hardware of HomeSeer and its several times the cost of HomeSeer. That should do most of what you want, and its support of hardware is getting better all the time, but it may take it a few years to get to where HomeSeer is today. And as Steve said, you can add MainLobby to either of these to add a better "front-end" if you think you need that.

I'd look at these and maybe download the demos to try them. You can use most of them for 30 days before you have to purchase them. Don't commit to ANYTHING until you have looked around.
 
Personally, I would take baby steps while you figure out everything you want to do. You already have the M1 which is great start. With it alone you can do alot of what you mentioned. I am a big fan of using the M1 to its fullest potential and then supplementing it with the appropriate software for the other stuff. Sounds like you want to start with lighting, so you need to pick a technology, essentially Insteon, UPB or Zwave these days. If you do not have neutrals, that kind of eliminates alot of choices. If you have neutrals I am a big fan of UPB.

So there is an idea... break down what you want into manageable 'chunks', choose the technology or options for that chunk, implement it and move to the next one. Just keep an eye on the big picture as there may be some interoperability concerns. While you are concentrating on the hardware and pieces like lighting you can be evaluating various software packages to complement the M1 because it will take you some time to try them out and be comfortable with a decision. If you want touch screens and complete control over design, you are looking basically at CQC and Mainlobby. For more full featured systems you are looking at Homeseer, HAL, Powerhome, etc. VR adds in a whole different twist.

But most important, take your time and have fun with it.

What Steve said makes a lot of sense..........
 
And as Steve said, you can add MainLobby to either of these to add a better "front-end" if you think you need that.
Since this is like the 3rd time I have been misquoted, I am going to respectfully ask that you quote my post if you are going to say "Steve said...". Don't take this personally, its just a general request.

As for my point, I said (and I apologize if it was not clear)
If you want touch screens and complete control over design, you are looking basically at CQC and Mainlobby. For more full featured systems you are looking at Homeseer, HAL, Powerhome, etc.
You don't add Mainlobby to CQC, they are competitors. Either are standalone and robust HA packages on their own, just not as complete as Homeseer device support wise. You can use ML with CQC, but I would never recommend that unless you already have Homeseer and want to keep it and have touchscreens on top of that. If you are starting from scratch, I would look at EITHER CQC or ML if touchscreens are desired. Buying 2 packages that overlap just to get touchscreen support is silly imho. I would look at Homeseer if you need something a bit more affordable with a ton of device support, but don't need fancy touch control. I also neglected to mention Netremote/Girder which is more affordable and will also provide device and touchscreen support. As always, these are my opinions of the landscape and others will have a different perspective.
 
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