New Construction, am I on the right track?

reko19

Active Member
Hi everyone, I’ve been lurking around for a while, time for my first post. New construction, trying to make sure I got everything covered. Current plan is to have automation, security, and A/V. Automation needs are fairly minimal, thermostats, shades / blinds control, few light switches, sprinklers, etc. Being able to do it from my computer or iPhone is very important. This is not a primary residence so I want to be able to adjust the temp, get alarms on low temps, etc. Security needs are typical: motion sensors, door switches, leak detectors, wall mounted keypads. Being able to receive an email if there is an alarm and being able to reset it remotely is a plus nut not an absolute must.

Took me a while to decide what I want to do with A/V, but I don’t think I need a whole house audio. This is not a huge home, about 3500s.f. I plan to have each TV location wired for the surround sound with ceiling mounted and wall mounted speakers. Planning to use these speakers for music as well. I will have a receiver at each location and want to be able to stream video and audio from centralized location. In our area cable is the most popular choice so no need for dish provisions. Having whole house audio complicates things, adds $, and I think I'll be covered with the above.

Here is what I am planning to do for wiring. Since I am in flux in terms of front end equipment I want to make sure that what I install would work regardless of final equipment selection. Please take a look.

From each TV location: two bundled cables: (two high-quality quad shield rg6u 75 ohm coaxial cables, two high-quality category 5e rated 4-pair telephone/network unshielded twisted pair (utp) cables) AND (4 x 4 pair cat5e 350 mhz cable, non-plenum pvc). home run to structured wiring closet.

For speakers: 16/4 speaker wire to on-floor receiver location

For all security devices (motion, glass break, leak detector): 4-conductor 22-gauge shielded cable. home run to structured wiring closet

For security keypad: 4-conductor 22-gauge shielded cable AND Cat5. home run to structured wiring closet

Thermostat: two 4-conductor 22-gauge shielded cables AND Cat5, home run to structured wiring closet

Smoke, CO2 detectors: 4-conductor 22-gauge shielded cable. home run to structured wiring closet

Data jack: bundled (4 x 4 pair cat5e 350 mhz cable, non-plenum pvc) cable. home run to structured wiring closet.

Tlf: Cat3, home run to structured wiring closet

For the front end I could use run of the mill security panel+Vera, Elk complimented by Vera since Elk does not seem to have thermostat support, or Omni possibly complimented by Vera.

Any input is greatly appreciated.
 
Welcome to CT!

4 x UTP to each data/LAN jack seems like overkill, if they're all being used for LAN. Usually, if you need more than 1 connection to the LAN at one spot (e.g. 3 computers), you'd use a local switch. In my family room TV cabinet I use a switch for all the components connected to the LAN (bluray player for Netflix, AV receiver, 3 hardwired laptop drops, WAP).
 
Welcome to CT!

4 x UTP to each data/LAN jack seems like overkill, if they're all being used for LAN. Usually, if you need more than 1 connection to the LAN at one spot (e.g. 3 computers), you'd use a local switch. In my family room TV cabinet I use a switch for all the components connected to the LAN (bluray player for Netflix, AV receiver, 3 hardwired laptop drops, WAP).
Typically it is computer and telephone at each location so 2xCat5 would be sufficient. No reason for having two spare Cat5?
 
Typically it is computer and telephone at each location so 2xCat5 would be sufficient. No reason for having two spare Cat5?

I'd put in all 4. I did. What if you want to hook a Balun up to send something, or later on put in a 1-wire network? I'd be nice to have the extra wires. They don't HAVE to be used for data.

Or, what if later on you need to "bind" two ethernet ports...can't do that if you have one port for data and one for phone...ONLY. I just think, if it is new, it's cheaper to pull an extra wire or two now, then to try to fish it later (unless you are putting conduit in...then it really doesn't matter).

Also, I saw something in your list that you are using cat3? Why not just put in cat 5? It can be be used just the same as cat3 (In fact I think the same color wires are the same "twist" ratio betwen cat3 and cat5).

--Dan
 
I'd put in all 4. I did. What if you want to hook a Balun up to send something, or later on put in a 1-wire network? I'd be nice to have the extra wires. They don't HAVE to be used for data.

Or, what if later on you need to "bind" two ethernet ports...can't do that if you have one port for data and one for phone...ONLY. I just think, if it is new, it's cheaper to pull an extra wire or two now, then to try to fish it later (unless you are putting conduit in...then it really doesn't matter).

Also, I saw something in your list that you are using cat3? Why not just put in cat 5? It can be be used just the same as cat3 (In fact I think the same color wires are the same "twist" ratio betwen cat3 and cat5).

--Dan
Dan,
The only thing I was thinking of running Cat3 to is a stand alone telephone.

Any recommendations on the front end guys? It appears that HAI has more elegant keypads, offers thermostats, etc. I am kinda back and forth between Elk and Omni.
 
If you have not had a chance to yet check out the links in my signature to the WIKI on wiring your new house.

I am in the process of gearing up for construction myself, and have taken the approach of dont have the builder put any LV wires in place and put conduit instead. then I will run all my own wires after we move in. With the exception of some security wires.
 
If you have not had a chance to yet check out the links in my signature to the WIKI on wiring your new house.

I am in the process of gearing up for construction myself, and have taken the approach of dont have the builder put any LV wires in place and put conduit instead. then I will run all my own wires after we move in. With the exception of some security wires.
I looked at all articles referenced in your signature, this is how I came up with my list. This is a great reference. I hear you on the conduit approach, but going to every location with a conduit might be more expensive than putting wires in. I am planning to throw some conduits in for future provisions, but want to have wiring in place.

Question on controlling lighting using motion sensors. I currently have a stand alone motion detector switch in my home. It turns hallway light on once I enter a house but only if it is dark in the hallway. Is there a way to achieve this with security motion sensors wired to Elk or Omni? I guess I wold need a light sensor or programming that would turn the light on based on motion activation only withing certain hours?
 
Question on controlling lighting using motion sensors. I currently have a stand alone motion detector switch in my home. It turns hallway light on once I enter a house but only if it is dark in the hallway. Is there a way to achieve this with security motion sensors wired to Elk or Omni? I guess I wold need a light sensor or programming that would turn the light on based on motion activation only withing certain hours?


I do (or did) this in my current home, with my ELK. However I supplement the logic with my HA application. So the elk sees motion and tells the HA program, and the program decides based on my programed logic (time of day ect..) if it should turn the lights on or not, and then using UPB I control the lights.
 
I hear you on the conduit approach, but going to every location with a conduit might be more expensive than putting wires in. I am planning to throw some conduits in for future provisions, but want to have wiring in place.

Price was not my thought here because I will still need to wire myself. But this was a future proof thought. This way I can put whatever I want in the conduit later. I am also putting some EMPTY conduit from the basement to the attic for future runs.
 
I do (or did) this in my current home, with my ELK. However I supplement the logic with my HA application. So the elk sees motion and tells the HA program, and the program decides based on my programed logic (time of day ect..) if it should turn the lights on or not, and then using UPB I control the lights.
Since Elk is security / home automation I was hoping this could be done without using third party controllers. Same with Omni, I could supplement either one with Zwave which seems to be the way to go.
 
Question on controlling lighting using motion sensors. I currently have a stand alone motion detector switch in my home. It turns hallway light on once I enter a house but only if it is dark in the hallway. Is there a way to achieve this with security motion sensors wired to Elk or Omni? I guess I wold need a light sensor or programming that would turn the light on based on motion activation only withing certain hours?

I do some of this on the HAI OPII panel. Works fine for me.
 
Price was not my thought here because I will still need to wire myself. But this was a future proof thought. This way I can put whatever I want in the conduit later. I am also putting some EMPTY conduit from the basement to the attic for future runs.


Conduit is pretty cheap. 3/4 pvc at HD is about $.20/ft. The flex stuff is about twice that but it is rare that you can't use the rigid stuff with an elbow here or there. Also, a propane torch softens up the rigid allowing it to make less harsh bends easily. I like the rigid since it has a smooth interior. Considering that you typically only run the conduit until it hits an atic/crawl space/or basement, you won't need that many feet of conduit to make everything accessible in the future. I left all my conduit empty until the house was done, then I moved in and decided what worked best for various stuff, then only dropped wires to those spots. If I had run wire to everywhere I might want wire, I would have run 5 or 10 times as much wire. Plus, some of those spots I have added a second wire that I would never have done in the first place.
 
I think I am missing something. How does Elk and Omni work with lighting control and thermostats? Looks like they interface with other third party products via additional modules. I was thinking that they each have their own proprietary protocols, does not seem to be the case. So depending whether I want to go Zwave or some other route, I would need to get the right expansion module? Thermostats also not clear, looks like Omni has few to choose from and Elk could use any Zwave compatible. In this case why on the promotional flyer Elk is shown with the thermostats hard wired via M1XSP module? Lighting control for Elk is shown via the same module plus lighting controller. Is lighting controller by a third party? Could someone set me straight please.
 
I can only speak for Elk.

Each m1xsp you add to the Elk board gives you one more serial port (the sp in xsp). The serial port plugs into some componenent of the 3rd party system and produces the linkage. For Inteon and UPB the xsp plugs into a power line modem. Depending on how you set the jumpers and what firmware you install, it communicates with different 3rd party stuff.

Also, the Elk has an XEP (ethernet protocol), allowing you to communicat via some 3rd party stuff via IP. The 3rd party people and Elk have worked together to establish the protocols and firmware to make it all work.

You can't just plug any 3rd party doohicky with a serial port into the Elk and expect it to work. Elk has to have a firmware for it.
 
Since Elk is security / home automation I was hoping this could be done without using third party controllers. Same with Omni, I could supplement either one with Zwave which seems to be the way to go.

This can be done but I wanted more control (touch screen/ipod touch) then the ELK would allow or I found easier in a third party software.


............

And to add with Lou's comments There are some supported Hard wired thermostats that work with the XSP. I use a TR-40 from RCS.
 
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