New security system for parents

[crazymjb]

First off, Hi, this is my first post at this board. I'm glad there is a forum for pretty much everything.

In light of some recent break ins in the neighborhood, and me moving out, my parents want to put a security system in.

I was assigned to research the topic for them and when I am home this winter break my friend and I were going to do an install. I looked into brinks, ADT, etc and I didn't like the setups they were pushing. 150-200 for "premium" installation of 3 wireless door sensors and a motion sensor and then 3 years of 36 dollars a month for monitoring. I decided, and my parents agree, that a custom installation makes more sense, as we can get a much better system and cheaper monitoring. After all, we have three doors into the house and have managed ourselves to break in, always by windows, when we were locked out. And they don't exactly throw "extra" sensors in for free.

I'm a pretty avid do-it-yourselfer and I don't think I am getting in too over my head. I've snaked coax and network cable before, although nothing to the level I am going to need to for all these window, motion, and glass break sensors. Any advice is greatly welcomed. I am hoping the drop ceiling in the basement will work to my advantage.

I am pretty much sold on the Elk M1 as the brain. I don't know a ton about this system but I am learning, and have heard a lot of good things. I have found the Gold package from vendors for as low as $500 and I am open to any recommendations from people here. Also, if there are any package deals with the network adapter and software that would also be great. Again, I've been searching. Eventually I think they would move towards lighting and thermostat integration, but right now they are really just looking for a good solid security system.

Of course I have a few questions for you guys here who know some stuff about these setups:

I am not sure what to get for door and window sensors. Will any dirt-cheap magnet window switches off the internet do, or are some truly better than others? I figured its hard to screw up a magnetic reed switch.

What about the glass break and PIR sensors? Is there a brand/model I should be going after for those?

For wire am I looking for 2 conductor 22 gauge?

Right now we have hardwired smoke detectors, I believe from Kidde, that have hot neutral and signal wire outputs. Basically, if one goes off, they all go off. I am sure I can integrate these into the system, but what am I going to need to decode the signal from the detectors so the system can read it?

Finally, my parents have an issue remembering to lock the deadbolts at night. That, or they go let the dog out and forget to lock it when she comes back in. I haven't been able to find a switch that would actually go in the door jam and be triggered by the bolt. I figured from reading about the flexibility of these systems, it could be setup so it wouldn't arm, or would chime with a reminder, if the doors were not bolted shut after say, 10PM. I am sure I could rig something up myself but if there is a reliable door jam based I/O switch I just as soon go with that.

Thanks everyone for your help. I'll return the favor and keep you posted with what's going on with the setup, without obviously showing how our house is secured.

Mike

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Quick reply as the Packer/Vikings game is on;

Wire: 22 one pair for your sensors, 22 two pair for your glass breaks, motions

Siren wiring depends on the type of siren. I like Moose Piezos

Sentrol makes good glass breaks. Motions, well, tons of choices (do they have pets?)

There is a Kiddie and GE smoke detector that can replace just one of your existing smokes and give you a contact closure if any of the smokes go off. Search for this as a lot of posts have been made on that topic.

For deadbolts, a few people have devised a custom approach on monitoring those, a search should hopefully turn up those posts.

 

[crazymjb]

We have about an 80lb labrador retriever but often she goes with the family when they go somewhere. For the most part people are in the house when she is so the PIRs would not be active.

I've been doing some reading through this site and there is some great/really interesting stuff, so I will continue with that.

Are there any major components I'm forgetting?

M1 gold starter package, individual door and window sensors (those double hung windows are gonna be fun, FML), motion/glass break senors, and that's about it to start. We'll see how much it ends up costing and go from there with extras. I'm sure they'll add on to it... just not sure how fast.

Mike

 

[mustangcoupe]

In addition to the components you have already selected consider water sensors in key locations where a leak may occur.

There are different Vendors out there even on Ebay, but one very trusted vendor of CT is Automated Outlet. They are very knowledgeable and can also help select the right components.



Check out the Wiring your new house 101, 102 and 103 in the CT wiki

 

[crazymjb]

We have a basement sump system in right now so I would definitely consider getting some flood sensors to replace the simple alarm that it has in there already, I may be able to replace the buzzer with a relay and just wire it in as another zone. A lot of the "post security" features will be added bit by bit in time, the initial priority is securing the house, but we want a system with expandability.

Will I need an additional relay board to control additional sirens, strobes, and a garage door opener?

Also, for the Ethernet interface, I have found two different items both with the same description, one is about 100 dollars less than the other. Is there a difference between the two products. One is IP232 and the other one they currently advertise on their site.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[crazymjb]

Is any 1K foot spool of 2 conductor 22 gauge wire that says something about home security in the description good to go, or should I be looking for something specific? I know not all wire is created equal but how much does it matter in this case?

Also, I have seen a bunch of threads talking about resistors and what not. I'm going to assume there is no clear answer to where to put those and what resistance to use (got lost looking through that thread).

I was writing out some numbers to take a preliminary look at what I am going to need. One potential issue I see is one room in our house was a converted from a 3 season room and now is just an entertianment room with 9 windows. I want all the windows in the room as one zone, and glass break as another. When doing the runs I was originally going to run each window, or group of windows, down to the box, and just string them in series there (that way if I had a sensor problem it could be narrowed down), is there a limit on wire runs/windows you can keep in series? All the windows are going to have 2 sensors (one for the top, one for the bottom).

GE has a recessed magnet sensor that has screw on terminals for 2 dollars a piece, since I will need upwards of 40 of these, is there anywhere I can get a good deal on bulk?

Is it better to use door jam plungers or magnet sensors on main doors?

Thanks for the help guys,

Mike

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Is any 1K foot spool of 2 conductor 22 gauge wire that says something about home security in the description good to go, or should I be looking for something specific? I know not all wire is created equal but how much does it matter in this case?

I'm a big fan of Belden Stranded Wire, but it's like Ford vs. Chevy and technically any wire should do.

Also, I have seen a bunch of threads talking about resistors and what not. I'm going to assume there is no clear answer to where to put those and what resistance to use (got lost looking through that thread).

Again, opinions vary as to the pros and cons of EOL's in SECURITY ZONES. Read the threads and decide based on those opinions. They are a must (according to manuf install specs) for fire/smoke detectors.

I was writing out some numbers to take a preliminary look at what I am going to need. One potential issue I see is one room in our house was a converted from a 3 season room and now is just an entertianment room with 9 windows. I want all the windows in the room as one zone, and glass break as another. When doing the runs I was originally going to run each window, or group of windows, down to the box, and just string them in series there (that way if I had a sensor problem it could be narrowed down), is there a limit on wire runs/windows you can keep in series? All the windows are going to have 2 sensors (one for the top, one for the bottom).

Should work, but keep your wiring straight with that many contacts in series

GE has a recessed magnet sensor that has screw on terminals for 2 dollars a piece, since I will need upwards of 40 of these, is there anywhere I can get a good deal on bulk?

I would look into Automated Outlet (automatedoutlet.com)

Is it better to use door jam plungers or magnet sensors on main doors?

Not sure on performance differences, but I would think magnet sensors are a lot easier to install (but I have no experience with those plungers).

Thanks for the help guys,

Mike

 

[signal15]

I just used Cat-6 instead of 22/2. It's just over $70 for 1000ft on Monoprice. It may not meet code, but if you don't care about that, then it actually works out awesome. 8 total conductors in a wire, conductors can be "teamed" for higher current applications, the extra leads to a location can be used for additional things at a later date, or if IP based products come out you can use them for that without having to pull new wire.

 

[sic0048]

Is it better to use door jam plungers or magnet sensors on main doors?

Plungers will eventually wear out and need to be replaced and can "stick" sometimes leading to less than 100% effectiveness (perhaps 99.9% effective). Magnets can be fairly easily defeated. Neither should be used as the sole line of defense. They should be supported with PIRs, glassbreaks, etc.

 

[crazymjb]

Like many others have done I intend for the door and window sensors to be a first line of defense, yes they will be the primary (coupled with glass breaks) in stay mode as people are running around my house at all hours of the night but when we are out I plan to have a handful of PIRs active. The other purpose of the sensors is to remind people to close and lock everything before arming the system at night, and before going out.

I have been doing some more reading on the use of resistors and think I have an understanding of the premise behind it but want to run it by you guys. My understanding is basically the system isn't looking for a zone to be open or closed, but rather is looking for it to be in a certain range of input vs output voltage (its looking for a certain Ohm reading). When the resistors are run in series, if the circuit opens that Ohm reading shoots up to infinity and the alarm is tripped. Because it is a normally closed circuit, if someone snipped the wire it would go off, or if someone spliced the wire without knowing the resistor value the voltage would spike and also trigger an alarm. The other option as I understand it, is to run the resistor in parallel with a normally open sensor. This way, when the sensor is tripped the voltage spikes and trips the alarm. If it is cut the voltage will drop as there is still a closed circuit with the resistor, and again, if someone tries to splice it and doesn't know the resistor value they will trip the alarm. If this assessment is correct, I then have one more big question... Where do I even start when trying to figure out how to daisy chain 5 or more windows on one zone? Also, since it is measuring resistance on a line, do I want them wired in series or parallel? If they are in series and each has a resistor, will the change of just removing one resistor(closing the circuit on one window) be enough to trip the alarm?

It would seem to me that if I am daisy chaining all the windows I would want a normally closed circuit with low value resistors in series right behind each sensor. This way if the system is compromised, the circuit is open and there is no question it will be read by the unit.

Also, is it acceptable to home run all the windows in one room to a plate covered single gang box in that room, and then run that daisy chain as one zone from that box to the main unit? It seems like it would make it much easier to track down an issue should one arise, and it would save probably over 500 feet of wire to the rooms in my house with many windows.

Also, I searched for the door lock/bolt sensors and couldn't find anything.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

You would want your typical normally closed sensors wired in series with the EOL (if you are using one) mounted at the furthest sensor. You can only use one EOL per security panel zone (or else the voltage windows will not be correct).

Refer to the drawing below.

I would just bag the EOL, but that's just my opinion. The small value it adds isn't worth the hassle for a home system, plus you have better noise immunity without using them.

 

[crazymjb]

What kind of issues are there with noise?

Also, again, through looking around, what kind of issues regarding dealing with electrical code am I going to have to deal with?

Mike

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

What kind of issues are there with noise?

Also, again, through looking around, what kind of issues regarding dealing with electrical code am I going to have to deal with?

Mike

Search and ye shall find!

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...amp;hl=immunity

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...57&hl=noise

 

[crazymjb]

Ok, so I understand that if it is just looking for the circuit to be open or closed there is a larger margin of error than if it is looking for a specific voltage coming through, but how much of an issue is noise usually? Also, with EOLRs installed, could the system be set to non EOLR mode and just be checking for continuity (open or closed), or it needs to be a pretty unimpeded circuit for that to work? This way I could at least set it up with EOLRs and if I realize noise is a big problem just not use them as they are intended.

From what it sounds like it makes the most sense to use normally closed sensors as well, that way if the wire breaks I would at least know that a zone was registering as unsecured. I understand running EOLRs in parallel with normally open circuits, but from what it sounds like that wouldn't work if I was daisy chaining.

Thanks for the help and patience,

Mike