New User, looking for opinions on whole home system

I don't know that there's any one best choice for everything. It comes down to user preference and overall goals.

In my case I found that I was standardizing on Elk for my platform - so I chose systems that integrate with Elk. For lighting, I did a lot of research and landed on UPB - but others do the same research and land on ZWave or Insteon. That's generally driven by cost of perception of technology - which will also affect brand choices (I chose Simply Automated for features and cost). With 60+ light switches, things add up.

For audio, the two most popular all-in-one systems seems to be Russound and Nuvo - though HAI has a new offering that's worth a look. If you were going with HAI, sticking with their audio system may be nice. Then again, another important decision in all this is how much time/effort you want to put in... if having the perfect UI is more important, then you're gonna want to build your own... if you want something you can just get online and be done with and have it all integrated, but without the UI control, putting together an HAI system may be best - because it all talks to each other pretty easily out of the box (but IMO the screens aren't the best looking).

What I was referring to with Windows Media Center was using extenders - not feeding the source directly from the PC... that's where you'll run into issues getting multiple streams at once. You can however have multiple Media Center Extenders which stream content from a central Windows Media Center to individual set-top boxes that run over IP; you can stream to multiple extenders at once. With this method you wouldn't necessarily distribute video to each TV - you'd just have Cat5 running to a set top extender. This is a tough one so it'll require more searching on your part. I don't think there is a clear solution just yet to this.

There are some pretty good recommendations on how to wire, but what's done from there is all user preference. If it were as simple as a single solution, this would be a how-to guide not a user forum.
 
For multiple clients serving video content I would look into SageTV.

You can use a single server that has multiple tuners (for cable input or OTA or component IN via the Hauppauge HDPVR hardware) to multiple PC clients or hardware extenders (or combinations).

You can also control SageTV via Android or iPhone or iPAD devices as a super bidirectional remote control. Streaming is also supported in beta to the device.

SageTV also supports plugins that integrate with SageTCPServer software that then allows for bidirectional integration with MainLobby or CQC home automation software. I think Homeseer might now also have integration.

Once you have one of those HA software packages, you can pretty much do anything your can think of from a hardware / software control perspective. And they can look as good / better than any other control system out there (either via readily available graphics packages or you roll your own if you have that talent or purchase those talents from others). Just keep in mind integration of all of these pieces is a lot of work both in learning curve and actual applied work.
That is where the role of a professional integrator comes in. But now most DIY budgets start getting stretched. Still cheaper than Crestron / AMX full boat systems but you have total control (which it sounds you are looking for).
 
I don't know that there's any one best choice for everything. It comes down to user preference and overall goals.

In my case I found that I was standardizing on Elk for my platform - so I chose systems that integrate with Elk. For lighting, I did a lot of research and landed on UPB - but others do the same research and land on ZWave or Insteon. That's generally driven by cost of perception of technology - which will also affect brand choices (I chose Simply Automated for features and cost). With 60+ light switches, things add up.

For audio, the two most popular all-in-one systems seems to be Russound and Nuvo - though HAI has a new offering that's worth a look. If you were going with HAI, sticking with their audio system may be nice. Then again, another important decision in all this is how much time/effort you want to put in... if having the perfect UI is more important, then you're gonna want to build your own... if you want something you can just get online and be done with and have it all integrated, but without the UI control, putting together an HAI system may be best - because it all talks to each other pretty easily out of the box (but IMO the screens aren't the best looking).

What I was referring to with Windows Media Center was using extenders - not feeding the source directly from the PC... that's where you'll run into issues getting multiple streams at once. You can however have multiple Media Center Extenders which stream content from a central Windows Media Center to individual set-top boxes that run over IP; you can stream to multiple extenders at once. With this method you wouldn't necessarily distribute video to each TV - you'd just have Cat5 running to a set top extender. This is a tough one so it'll require more searching on your part. I don't think there is a clear solution just yet to this.

There are some pretty good recommendations on how to wire, but what's done from there is all user preference. If it were as simple as a single solution, this would be a how-to guide not a user forum.

how do extenders work? i had always thought people were talking about switches when they used the word extender, but it sounds like its something different?

Reilly
 
For multiple clients serving video content I would look into SageTV.

You can use a single server that has multiple tuners (for cable input or OTA or component IN via the Hauppauge HDPVR hardware) to multiple PC clients or hardware extenders (or combinations).

You can also control SageTV via Android or iPhone or iPAD devices as a super bidirectional remote control. Streaming is also supported in beta to the device.

SageTV also supports plugins that integrate with SageTCPServer software that then allows for bidirectional integration with MainLobby or CQC home automation software. I think Homeseer might now also have integration.

Once you have one of those HA software packages, you can pretty much do anything your can think of from a hardware / software control perspective. And they can look as good / better than any other control system out there (either via readily available graphics packages or you roll your own if you have that talent or purchase those talents from others). Just keep in mind integration of all of these pieces is a lot of work both in learning curve and actual applied work.
That is where the role of a professional integrator comes in. But now most DIY budgets start getting stretched. Still cheaper than Crestron / AMX full boat systems but you have total control (which it sounds you are looking for).

hmm ok i will look into this, yes i definately want to be able to setup remotes on iphone/android phones.

can you point me to any youtube videos of examples of what you are talking about? i think you are on the right track as to what i want to do with this post, do you have any idea what id be looking at costwise to implement something like this?

i will look into mainlobby, cqc and also homeseer. thanks.
 
I also use and love SageTV even though I don't have a fully featured set up. I mainly have 4 tuners that record OTA content from an antenna in the attic. An extender is just a set top box that renders the video content from the Sage server. It plugs into your TV (HDMI) and there is an ethernet cable to the network. Using extenders takes a big load of of the server so it doesn't need to transcode HD content, etc. IMHO using extenders is the only way to go if setting up a Sage system. They have nice small 300 series extenders now, I still have the original 100 series. I'm not sure what Todd was talking about with Sage losing ground due to copy protection. I obviously get free OTA signal and with PlayOn you can link to your Netflix and Hulu accounts. There may be issues with DVDs or something but I don't use them.
 
Welcome to the forum Reilly.

MS Extenders do work these days of Windows7 MCE. They didn't work / work well with XP/Vista - for me - I had issues with them on the wired network. The MCE W7 box isn't on too much these days as I've moved over to using a mini-NMT with 1TB drives. These play everything and stream internet pretty decent. Very simple graphics; no frills. Newest updated GUI has a "Video Wall" which I guess is OK. You can do Netflix etc with these boxes just fine. All in a small footprint (5.5"X5.5"X1.5") innocuous metal box.

I kind of use my home as my HA sandbox; with an HAI OPII with TS's, UPB, X10, OmniStat2, Russound wired with expansion board. Next on the list sitting on the shelf pending installation are 45A00-1's and a 42A002. The home is using metal dual boxes and conduit and right now a mix of switches. On the software side I use HSPro with approximately 18 serial/USB devices connected to it (and Touchscreens). Most recently purchased a fanless Shuttle PC with an Atom 510 running pretty descent now. All of the connections to the box come via one USB port. (USB==> USB 7 port hub ==> 2XDigi 8 port Edgeport boxes). This box also hase same multiple lighting protocal PIM's attached to it. I have been migration to UPB from being an X10 user since the 1970's. I utilized Z-Wave this year (first time) for my Christmas lighting.

If you put in a base for sound, network, video, etc you pretty much have a large variety of technologies to choose from. As above its what you are comfortable with. Lighting today just works and I don't do much with it. I did at one time do the PIR event / lighting / walking thru the house thing but due to WAF I had to remove most of these type of events. For outside though use they work pretty well. I have integrated video security with the HA box non invasively and it works pretty well. Lately its been these 3.5" & 8" Insignia "Chumbys" here and there - nice little toys and some HA potential.

Today the technology exists for just about any kind of HA you may want. The costs is relatively inexpensive versus a few years back.

Detailed planning is always very helpful and the folks here on the forum are also very helpful.
 
I also use and love SageTV even though I don't have a fully featured set up. I mainly have 4 tuners that record OTA content from an antenna in the attic. An extender is just a set top box that renders the video content from the Sage server. It plugs into your TV (HDMI) and there is an ethernet cable to the network. Using extenders takes a big load of of the server so it doesn't need to transcode HD content, etc. IMHO using extenders is the only way to go if setting up a Sage system. They have nice small 300 series extenders now, I still have the original 100 series. I'm not sure what Todd was talking about with Sage losing ground due to copy protection. I obviously get free OTA signal and with PlayOn you can link to your Netflix and Hulu accounts. There may be issues with DVDs or something but I don't use them.

so does each extender have its own gui? and it pulls media off the pc then? or am i misunderstanding? can you link me one, i did a search for ms extender but only came up with software you would run on your xbox as a game to play media from your media centre pc.

Reilly
 
Welcome to the forum Reilly.

MS Extenders do work these days of Windows7 MCE. They didn't work / work well with XP/Vista - for me - I had issues with them on the wired network. The MCE W7 box isn't on too much these days as I've moved over to using a mini-NMT with 1TB drives. These play everything and stream internet pretty decent. Very simple graphics; no frills. Newest updated GUI has a "Video Wall" which I guess is OK. You can do Netflix etc with these boxes just fine. All in a small footprint (5.5"X5.5"X1.5") innocuous metal box.

I kind of use my home as my HA sandbox; with an HAI OPII with TS's, UPB, X10, OmniStat2, Russound wired with expansion board. Next on the list sitting on the shelf pending installation are 45A00-1's and a 42A002. The home is using metal dual boxes and conduit and right now a mix of switches. On the software side I use HSPro with approximately 18 serial/USB devices connected to it (and Touchscreens). Most recently purchased a fanless Shuttle PC with an Atom 510 running pretty descent now. All of the connections to the box come via one USB port. (USB==> USB 7 port hub ==> 2XDigi 8 port Edgeport boxes). This box also hase same multiple lighting protocal PIM's attached to it. I have been migration to UPB from being an X10 user since the 1970's. I utilized Z-Wave this year (first time) for my Christmas lighting.

If you put in a base for sound, network, video, etc you pretty much have a large variety of technologies to choose from. As above its what you are comfortable with. Lighting today just works and I don't do much with it. I did at one time do the PIR event / lighting / walking thru the house thing but due to WAF I had to remove most of these type of events. For outside though use they work pretty well. I have integrated video security with the HA box non invasively and it works pretty well. Lately its been these 3.5" & 8" Insignia "Chumbys" here and there - nice little toys and some HA potential.

Today the technology exists for just about any kind of HA you may want. The costs is relatively inexpensive versus a few years back.

Detailed planning is always very helpful and the folks here on the forum are also very helpful.


can you give me more info on the extenders for windows7 mce? do they have their own interfce or do they clone the windows mce interface?
 
hmm ok i will look into this, yes i definately want to be able to setup remotes on iphone/android phones.

can you point me to any youtube videos of examples of what you are talking about? i think you are on the right track as to what i want to do with this post, do you have any idea what id be looking at costwise to implement something like this?

i will look into mainlobby, cqc and also homeseer. thanks.

Here's info:

Android UI for SageTV:
http://talluscorp.com/mediawiki//index.php?title=TASageTV_Application

iPhone / iPAD UI for SageTV:
http://talluscorp.com/mediawiki//index.php?title=TiSageTV_Application

MainLobby integration for SageTV:
http://talluscorp.com/mediawiki//index.php?title=MLSageTV_Plugin


We have a video for the Android user interface here:
http://talluscorp.com/mediawiki//index.php?title=TASageTV_Application#Trial_.2F_Purchase
 
to clarify, my issue with Sage is that I'm not a fan of manually tuning cable boxes and reencoding, and they won't work with people like SiliconDust to get the cablecard HDHomeRun working, so it can't really capture my cable channels. I guess if I got over this and had it manually tune and encode a few DTV boxes it wouldn't be too bad, but there's inherent video quality loss in doing that. At least with MCE you can get cablecard tuners and skip the external hardware.
 
to clarify, my issue with Sage is that I'm not a fan of manually tuning cable boxes and reencoding, and they won't work with people like SiliconDust to get the cablecard HDHomeRun working, so it can't really capture my cable channels. I guess if I got over this and had it manually tune and encode a few DTV boxes it wouldn't be too bad, but there's inherent video quality loss in doing that. At least with MCE you can get cablecard tuners and skip the external hardware.

This is the one thing that has kept me from jumping on the Sage bandwagon. I am likely to do so soon anyway, as I want a central media setup, and Sage seems to give everything else that I want (scheduled recordings, DVD/BD [file] playback, etc). If only I could lose my STB too!!
 
Here's info:

Android UI for SageTV:
http://talluscorp.com/mediawiki//index.php?title=TASageTV_Application

iPhone / iPAD UI for SageTV:
http://talluscorp.com/mediawiki//index.php?title=TiSageTV_Application

MainLobby integration for SageTV:
http://talluscorp.com/mediawiki//index.php?title=MLSageTV_Plugin


We have a video for the Android user interface here:
http://talluscorp.com/mediawiki//index.php?title=TASageTV_Application#Trial_.2F_Purchase


so with sage i can have all my movies on my pc that has sagtv installed on it, and i can watch one on one tv, and watch two others on different tvs at the same time? also can i switch watching something from one tv to another tv with this setup?
 
Look at Centralite LiteJet for hardwire. There are actually many threads discussing this if you search and read but here is a quick summary.

2. Hybrid low voltage. Do a traditional wiring PLUS control is done via a Cat5. The wiring in not inside the box unless you use dividers, but rather the switches low voltage leads are pulled out of box and attached to Cat5 externally. Same advantage as reliability, a little more involved wiring but uses traditional high voltage wiring. Look at ALC. Join chat room and look for MavRic who is implementing ALC.

This is what I was talking about. I wasn't aware that you connect the CAT5 to a pigtail from the switch on the outside of the box, but from a code standpoint it still seems like trouble. That pigtail functions as an extension of the LV CAT5 wires and as such if there were a short it would send HV into the CAT5. Maybe code only concerns itself with shorts that occur at the connections.

I had a friend who had a centralized system, he hated it with a passion. He sold the house becuase of it. It would regularly get scrambled and it is 100% proprietery so a service call with all of the inconvenience and big time cost went with it every time. Furthermore, when it got scrambled, he simply couldn't turn the lights on no matter what. At least with UPB,Insteon,Zwave you can still go to the primary switch and have control no matter what happens to the programming.
 
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