Newbie: confused about Vizia 3-way association

[LaurentR]

Hi all,
I am trying to decide between Insteon and zwave. I was leaning towards insteon by pure inertia (been using X10 forever and I am a good smarthome customer), but I am intrigued by zwave.

On of the things I don't get is ful virtual 3-way switches:
- One dimmer controls its own light
- Another dimmer controls its own light
- The two are associated so they turn on/off/dim together.

Insteon has an easy way to do this. With zwave, I am confused. There is a tale showing that the Vizia RF dimmers cannot control other dimmers. Do they still transmit their actions to the network, or they are pure slaves? Is it possible to associate dimmers (using scenes, zones or directly) using the controller (Z-troller...) so that each dimmer can trigger a scene that the other one will follow. Even then, I assume than dimming levels can't be sync'd?

Actually, I have the same question for lamp modules. Can a regular Vizia dimmer control a lamp module _somehow_ (i.e. possibly through the controller).

I have done quite a bit of homework (reading this and other boards and many instructions), but I am still confused. ANy help would be welcome.

In general, I found very little doc on how the whole system interacts. I don't even know if the Vizia dimmers transmit anything...

Thanks in advance.

Laurent

 

[twilo123]

viziarf 3way - typically you just use a standard vizia rf 3way switch (i use the 1000w dimmers) along with a vizia non rf companion switch in vizia, not virtual 3way switching like some other manufacturers - http://store.homeseer.com/store/Z-Wave-Com...RF-P345C43.aspx

you want something like the cooper wiring switches for the typical virtual 3way switching.

vizia and most other manufacturers do have in wall controllers that are normally single gang and can be programmed to control 1 or more other z-wave switches. the problem with these controllers is usually that the do not control a local load.
examples:
http://store.homeseer.com/store/Z-Wave-4-B...RF-P344C69.aspx
http://store.homeseer.com/store/Z-Wave-1-B...RF-P445C69.aspx


associations are usually controlled via software program or programmed directly into the switch with a handheld remote control or laptop with a usb stick.

dimming levels can usually be synced via both software or the handheld method if the switch/wall controller supports the function.

i use an intouch wall controller ( http://store.homeseer.com/store/Z-Wave-Acc...ch-P405C69.aspx ) to turn on/off an intermatic appliance module ( http://store.homeseer.com/store/Z-Wave-App...ngs-P15C41.aspx ). i also use the leviton wall zone controller ( http://store.homeseer.com/store/Z-Wave-4-B...RF-P356C69.aspx ) to control a screw in lamp module ( http://store.homeseer.com/store/Z-Wave-Ind...ings-P1C41.aspx ) and a leviton lamp module ( http://store.homeseer.com/store/Z-Wave-Lam...RF-P316C40.aspx ).

Hi all,
I am trying to decide between Insteon and zwave. I was leaning towards insteon by pure inertia (been using X10 forever and I am a good smarthome customer), but I am intrigued by zwave.

On of the things I don't get is ful virtual 3-way switches:
- One dimmer controls its own light
- Another dimmer controls its own light
- The two are associated so they turn on/off/dim together.

Insteon has an easy way to do this. With zwave, I am confused. There is a tale showing that the Vizia RF dimmers cannot control other dimmers. Do they still transmit their actions to the network, or they are pure slaves? Is it possible to associate dimmers (using scenes, zones or directly) using the controller (Z-troller...) so that each dimmer can trigger a scene that the other one will follow. Even then, I assume than dimming levels can't be sync'd?

Actually, I have the same question for lamp modules. Can a regular Vizia dimmer control a lamp module _somehow_ (i.e. possibly through the controller).

I have done quite a bit of homework (reading this and other boards and many instructions), but I am still confused. ANy help would be welcome.

In general, I found very little doc on how the whole system interacts. I don't even know if the Vizia dimmers transmit anything...

Thanks in advance.

Laurent

 

[ViziaRFSupport]

With Vizia RF you can do virtual 3-way if you use a one button zone controller (RZCZ1) as your non load bearing dimmer (3-way location). This can be programmed to any of the RZI06, RZI10, or RZM10 dimmers including plug in lamp modules (RZP03-1LW). All you do is create an "Area" on the handheld programmer (RZCPG) and assign that area to the zone controller. You can also use a four button scene controller (RZCS4) to control multiple areas of your home at preset lighting levels that you program into it. There is no special wiring needed for a Vizia RF system.

See http://www.viziarf.com to get further information including specification sheets, instruction sheets, and application notes, on the Vizia RF products.

 

[shenandoah75]

Awesome to have Leviton join the support of this forum!!!


Just curious is that Ben behind this user? You are the man and thanks for joining to help us all out... (btw - never got the email to give you the kudos for the support call we had, but i'm more than happy to do so) Anyway - please ignore if you wish to remain anonymous

-brad

 

[LaurentR]

Thanks for the answers, but I am still confused.
I understand you can associate:
- One dimmer with load
- One button zone controller

But there is no way to associate:
- One dimmer with load
- Another dimmer with load
even using a any kind of third-party hardware
?

I assume that in the first case, when the dimmer is actuated by a user, it does transmit info on the network, which is picked up by the zone controller or another controller. It's just that for some reason, it can't use this to control another dimmer (why?) even if they are part of the same zone?

For instance, what would the following system do:
- One dimmer with load
- Another dimmer with load
- A one button zone controller

Would the first two dimmers be synchronized if part of the same zone (defined by the one button zone controller)? Otherwise, would they be half-synchronized (i.e. between a dimmer and the controller, but not dimmer-to-dimmer through the controller)?
If this whole thing works, can a non-button controller (like the z-troller) act as the synchronizing third party?

Likewise, is there a way to use dimmer with load to control a lamp module if somehow they ar eprogrammed to the same zone.

Tanks in advance.

Laurent

 

[shenandoah75]

Not out of the box...

But with the serial adapter and evet driven hardware/software it can be done...

For instance once elk releases their firmware upgrade for the serial expander to support eh RZCOP, you can say whenever light A is turned on, turn light B on... (but doesn't look like the rule can incorporate simming level matching between the two). You could build your own even driven software to do it as well (or ask Johnnynine to enhance his - i think he's already planning to add event support soon)


thx
-brad

 

[johnnynine]

Like Brad mentioned, Load switches can not control other load switches, so dimming from a load switch will not affect any other load devices as far as I know.

Doing this based on events would work but it might be less than desirable. It would be simple enough to do, but you have no guarantee of how long the state change notification will take... generally the RZC0P serial device receives the notifications within 2 seconds. The notification also isn't sent from the load device until you have stopped dimming. Updating the load devices state is usually almost instantaneous. So you could be looking at about a 2 second delay between dimming the load device and seeing the 2nd dimmer change.

 

[LaurentR]

Thanks again for the answers. A few more questions:

- Does the 2 dimmers with loads + 1 one-button controller scheme work? It seems that if the controller gets updated, both dimmers should get updated (I expect that a controller can control more than one device/load, right?), but if a dimmer is updated, while the controller gets updated, that doesn't get passed on to the other dimmer?

- Why are the dimmers like that and do not integrate a controller? Is that the patent issue with Lutron I have been reading about here and there? Are there other brands of zwave dimmers that would do what I want?

Thanks in advance.

Laurent

 

[johnnynine]

Does the 2 dimmers with loads + 1 one-button controller scheme work? It seems that if the controller gets updated, both dimmers should get updated (I expect that a controller can control more than one device/load, right?), but if a dimmer is updated, while the controller gets updated, that doesn't get passed on to the other dimmer?

I've never controlled more than one device with a single button controller (a Leviton engineer actually told me you couldn't do it, but I think he may have been mistaken?). However I have several 4 button controllers with buttons assigned to more than one load and the load switches can only be changed from the controller switch. Adjusting a load does not affect the other load switches.

Why are the dimmers like that and do not integrate a controller? Is that the patent issue with Lutron I have been reading about here and there? Are there other brands of zwave dimmers that would do what I want?

This is where a 4 button scene controller comes in handy. I have not seen any zwave devices that work the way you are describing.

 

[ASIHome]

Thanks again for the answers. A few more questions:

- Does the 2 dimmers with loads + 1 one-button controller scheme work? It seems that if the controller gets updated, both dimmers should get updated (I expect that a controller can control more than one device/load, right?), but if a dimmer is updated, while the controller gets updated, that doesn't get passed on to the other dimmer?

- Why are the dimmers like that and do not integrate a controller? Is that the patent issue with Lutron I have been reading about here and there? Are there other brands of zwave dimmers that would do what I want?

Thanks in advance.

Laurent

You can associate the RZCS1-1LX (Scene - No LEDs) to multiple dimmers or switches and you can associate the RZCZ1-1LX (Zone - LEDs) to one switch or one dimmer but you cannot associate the RZCZ1-1LX (Zone - LEDs) to multiple dimmers or switches. Hope this helps.

edit: Corrected a mistype.