Newbie question on hardware controller

[aerosoob]

First post - well done website.

I'm doing the initial research into home automation and I'm having trouble figuring out the difference between some of the hardware controllers out there. For example, why spend $600 on the Elk M1 when I can spend $69.99 on the INSTEON Powerlink Controller V2 or $59.99 on the ZCU000-USB Zwave computer interface?

It seems to me that both cheap options can controll anything in the house using 3rd party software to set it up. The Insteon controller doesn't even need the computer to stay on. Isn't that exactly what the Elk does?

I've noticed that most questions like this get replies asking for more specifics, so this is generally what I am trying to do:

I want to be able to control lighting, HVAC, security, irrigation, and garage door. I'm looking for a flexible, programable interface that can be accessed via the home PC, PDA, in-wall touchpad, and the internet. So far I like CQC and Homeseer on the software side. I am willing to spend about $1500 on initial set-up.

Thanks for any help you can send a newbie.

- Aerosoob

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Aerosoob, welcome to CocoonTech.

The problem is the word "controller" is used to generically.

The Elk will interface with a lot more hardware and also provide the means to control inputs and monitor outputs hardwired to it. For instance, it can monitor digital inputs (contact closures in the form of magnetic contacts for instance) or provide digital outputs (relay closures which can control things like garage doors). It also has internal logic capability much more versatile, plus can act as your security system.

Other items can control "just" their hardware types and will not provide the versatility mentioned above.

Of course this is just a very basic description to start with.

 

[Rupp]

Aerosoob,
The combination of HomeSeer and the Elk hardware with Elk plugin is a very, if not the best combination available for controlling your lighting, air/heat, security, and A/V.

 

[mustangcoupe]

It seems to me that both cheap options can control anything in the house using 3rd party software to set it up. The Insteon controller doesn't even need the computer to stay on. Isn't that exactly what the Elk does?

But with the computer off how are you going to control security, garage door, ect... you'd only be able to control insteon stuff which now includes irrigation

I want to be able to control lighting, HVAC, security, irrigation, and garage door. I'm looking for a flexible, programable interface that can be accessed via the home PC, PDA, in-wall touchpad, and the internet. So far I like CQC and Homeseer on the software side. I am willing to spend about $1500 on initial set-up.

I believe Elk gives you the best HA/Security option and also can control some of your other items with add-on options (relay modules for the garage door and irrigation, Serial module AND INSTEON controller for lighting, HAL or RCS thermostat for HVAC) You can still use computer based software as some have an elk plug-in or elk has a published serial protocol...

If you went with a computer based soloution you'd still need hardware to control the other devices ocelot, stargate, ect....

So I guess what I am getting to no item will do 100% of what we want to do some HA projects require multiple items to get the job done...

 

[Digger]

Actually............... what cant the ELK do on that list? Do you really need PC Based software other than ELKRM?

I am asking because I think I am doing everything on the list with my M1 and ELK RM. Granted teh lighting in not working but that is the Insteon end and no matter what you would use it would be the same problem.

FYI I like the fact that the M1 controls lighting since I have mine programmed that if there is a fire or CO alarm it turns the lights on etc. (when the lights work).

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

That is true Digger. The Elk can do a lot of this on its own. I do like HomeSeer combination with the Elk (that I used on my friend's house).

It provides the versatility and extra little features such as caller ID announcements, weather displays, announcements that need to be a bit more elaborate/detailed than the Elk's canned wording provides, etc...

The two are a great combination. Of course I have to throw in a disclaimer and say I am running HomeSeer 1.7 and not the latest and greatest version yet.

 

[TCassio]

Lets not forget the fact that even though you have the Elk, you will still need that $69 controller to control the Insteon equipment, and additional interfaces if you wish to control HVAC, Audio and whatever else there is!!!

 

[Steve]

That is true Digger. The Elk can do a lot of this on its own. I do like HomeSeer combination with the Elk (that I used on my friend's house).

It provides the versatility and extra little features such as caller ID announcements, weather displays, announcements that need to be a bit more elaborate/detailed than the Elk's canned wording provides, etc...

The two are a great combination. Of course I have to throw in a disclaimer and say I am running HomeSeer 1.7 and not the latest and greatest version yet.

I will not dispute that Elk and Homeseer are a good combo, but imho CQC is a MUCH better choice if you are looking at touchscreens, graphical interfaces and A/V or HT applications. CQC will also do all of this other stuff mentioned easily and it has one of the more robust Elk drivers in BOTH serial and ethernet.

Just to be fair, Mainlobby, HAL, Powerhome and others can also interface to the Elk.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Ah, also very true Steve. Didn't mean to neglect those choices, I was just responding to what I use/have used personally.

 

[carry15+1]

Hi Aerosoob,

You cannot compare the M1G to the Powerllinc - they are two difference animals.

In addition to what has already been mentioned, the M1G gives you a telephone dialer, remote & local telephone control, voice annunciation, expandable security inputs, up to a couple hundred solid state & relay outputs, network interface, siren driver, support for wireless sensors, an event log, HVAC, central station supervision and more.

I use the M1G with a Homevision Pro HA controller which picks up the heaviest part of my HA, including IR tx/rx. I do not run a computer 24/7. I have tinkered with most of the available HA controllers over the years and my present combination can do anything I can dream up. I started with the X10 CM11A - not too unlike the Powerlinc. If you buy the powerlinc you will enjoy tinkering with it - but you WILL replace it before long.

Even if you opt for a lesser expensive HA controller (true controller) you will find it frustrating to implement a reliable security system with it and many other features built into the M1G.

Suffice it to say you get what you pay for.

My recommendation? Start with the M1G and build on it from there. If you run a 24/7 computer you can do unlimited HA. You'll be missing IR, and perhaps some other features that may or may not be important to you. In a year or two you can add a separate HA controller and it can talk to the M1G via rs232 or your network.

I use x10 for lighting simply because it works with the house wiring that's in my home. For things like HVAC, GDO, security contacts, temperature measurement, etc . I like hardwire.

You're in for an adventure

 

[aerosoob]

Wow, thanks for all the great responses. I should have posted here a long time ago!

One quick follow-up question...the Elk M1 user manual shows three ways for the PC to communicate with the Elk. Rs-232, dial-up, and ethernet (with the ELK-M1EXP installed). I am going to have to go ethernet since the other two options are not available, but the M1EXP installation manual says that ElkRP must be up and running on the PC to install it. Is it possible to use the M1EXP from the very beginning, or do I need to go get a USB to serial converter just to get things jump-started?

Also, if I'm using CQC to interface with the Elk, will that have an issue if it is going through the M1XEP?

I appologize for all the setup questions. I think that understanding the I/O is the biggest hurdle to getting started.

Thanks,
-Aerossob

 

[Steve]

You can use the XEP from the beginning. ElkRP is the configuration software that runs on the PC. It can connect to the M1 via any of the methods you mentioned. As long as the XEP is connected correctly you should be able to find it with ElkRP and then connect with it. You can always use the serial connection as a backup - just laptop to M1 via serial cable.

CQC works greats via ethernet. Been running here solid for over a year. The nice thing about the CQC ethernet driver is it is intelligent and knows when you connect via RP and disconnects itself. It then reconnects automatically when RP disconnects. The reason for this is RP requires exclusive control when connected.